Antonio Tarver: Eyes open or closed?

A guy KO'd twice 15 years into a career is completely different than a guy KO'd like that early and throughout his career.

Guys act like Roy has the chin of Roger Mayweather or Junior Jones.

Lemmon was KO'd during his prime and during his reign and most consider him chinny...

"However"

When talking about him, no one acts as though he couldn't beat anybody which is essentially what guys are doing in Roy's case.

Roy's chin wasn't an issue because no one could get to it. That goes a long way toward stating how good his reflexes/skills were.

 

Why do you think they collapsed mentally :: Because everything they tried wasn't working, they got discouraged by what was happening in the ring, not by Roy's psychic powers.::

 

Other guys didn't give up mentally but ended up taking more punishment. Harmon, Hall, Telesco.

Pretty hard not to get discouraged when you're getting countered silly and being pummelled.

 

:nono: Psychic powers. The only logical explanation.

 

dsimon writes:

Lemmon was in the heavy weight division and lemmon was at times smacked around.... Mercer, Briggs, and of course Vitali. These performances showed that Lewis had a great chin, especially Vitali.

The Bold part of the post is where we are in 100% agreement. Some guys make a lot of excuses for Roy's victories (got to the good guys early, etc) that is not my point, I don't agree with that. My point is that Roy had a suspect chin that he protected very well with other attributes against some of the best. But Tarver did indeed expose a weakness.

 

dsimon writes:

Honestly did you guys read that into Double's post? I didn't. Roy smacked you and had presence in the ring.... Like Tyson had presence in the ring. Tyson scared the shit out of people and he also had the skills to back it up. Roy did the same sort of thing. He bedazzled with skills and made the opponent hesitate.

Lewis, who was also talented never had that presence in the ring. Guys actually thought they could beat Lewis... They thought he spoke like a cupcake and that he was easy pickings for the KO. ::

 

No but but he seems to imply that if these guys really wanted they would have been able to beat Roy. He seems to think they simply didn't because all of sudden they gave up on themselves for some strange reason. That's why I brought up "Psychic powers" in jest. But for me, these guys didn't KO Roy because he was too good for them, not because they gave up on themselves because of Roy's aura of invincibility. It's a common myth on message boards that nobody really tried to bumrush Roy without getting discouraged before like Johnson did, more than a few guys tried that but they got the shit countered out of them. I remember Brannon, he tried that but got totally beat up to the point that Roy asked the ref to stop the fight. Even though I joked earlier about Roy being undefeated, I suscribe to the idea that Roy hadn't totally recovered from the Tarver KO when he fought Johnson, a prime Roy wouldn't have been caught on the ropes that often against a guy like Johnson.

 

dsimon writes:

Double L always has to have some fantastic premise in his posts::.... or it isn't double L::.

I agree. I actually think it is amazing when fighter can cultivate an image that makes other professionals ambivalent, but this image goes hand in hand with the actual skills that pay the bills for sure.

I think the Tarver KO was psychologically devistating for Roy and ironickly this, in my mind was much more relevant than physically getting KO'ed despite how it exposed Roy a bit.

 

Lewis didn't have that intimidating presence like a Tyson, but some of his opponents got intimidated in the ring and tasted a right hand from him, similar to how guys got intimidated when they found out how quick Roy really was and how well he countered them, and how guys got intimidated when they saw first-hand how powerful and fast Tyson was. If it wasn't "intimidation", then it was a respect that made guys more cautious and tenative.

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth"- Tyson

 

dsimon writes:

Actually with Lewis you could see it as soon as they got smacked::. But I think that Roy and Mike were different in that before they ever even threw a punch they had a presence, a control over the opponent that was only reinforced when they connected in the ring.

I almost want to say that if Lewis had the presence of Mike and Roy he would never have gotten Ko'ed by Rahman and Mccall, but I know that is conjecture and Mccall particularly was crazy enough not to be put off by anyone::.

 

I don't think the Tarver KO exposed Roy. It was GREAT shot just like the shot Rahman landed on Lemmon. Anyone would have gone out from those shots.

I said this at the time, but I was concerned about Roy fighting Johnson so quickly after the KO loss. I always felt he was rushed by HBO because the September slot was his last chance at getting back on HBO before the end of the year.

You have a 35 year old guy fighting twice in four months (which he hadn't done in nearly 10 years) plus coming off a one punch KO...

It was simply too soon.

Not to mention, after a KO you're suspended for 60 days so Roy wouldn't have (in theory) had enough time to spar in preparation for Johnson.

Some of us (meaning ME) saw the Tarver KO coming before it happened. I'd talked about my concern over Tarver catching Roy because it was clear by the end of their first fight, he had Roy's timing down.

I also openly spoke about my reservations about Roy fighting Johnson so soon after the Tarver KO. I'd heard that Roy had been knocked down a few times in when preparing for Johnson which told me he wasn't physically nor mentally ready to step into the ring again.

For a guy to have had that long of a run without really getting hurt, pyschologically he must have been a mess...in fact he still is.

 

dsimon writes:



Please. You could deconstruct why every fighter had a bad outing. Fact is Roy got jacked and subsequent to that performance has not shown any indication it was a lucky punch. Lewis destroyed the two guys who caught him. Once Tarver showed he found Roy out he owned Roy... to the point where Roy fought only to not get KO'ed the third time.

Again, why is it so hard to accept that Roy is vulnerable? And sure maybe it is his age and maybe not. All anybody knows is that it is, it happened. Lewis took hellaciouis punches from Klitschko, this dispels any myth about his chin. Klitschko, who BTW has a very high KO percentage. Roy subsequent to Tarver's KO was again KO'ed and was tentative in his third fight with Tarver.

Let me ask you this Muze, do you think Jones believes your explanations for what happened with Johnson? If he does why does he not get in there with a guy who can punch? Hopkins would fight Roy, he could probably even get a fight with Joe duckzighe because these guys know that regardless of whether it is due to age, or hapinstance... they have found a way to beat Roy.

 

Actually, HERE is the logic of calling Jones chinny...

He was fragile enough to be outright RUINED by one punch.

End of story.

 

Michael Watson nearly died by getting hit by one punch. Boxing isn't good for your health.

 

Never said ANYTHING remotely like that, thanks :shit: for putting words in my mouth :cheer: Never even ONCE mentioned Griffen one, you are :shit: , just thought I should clarify.

 

So how would you e-badasses take a shot that you don't see coming? Jump up and do a back flip one second later? Logic flies out the window when it comes to bashing a fighter ::

Tarver doesn't hit hard, Roy never got hit in Tarver 1&3, Johnson won because he pressured him and that never happened before. Ruiz is a powder puff pitta pat, Toney never hit Roy, Sosa never hit Roy, Reggie never hit Roy and has no power either, Jones is china chinned but took several clean shots from Griffen, it all makes sense now......I see the light :shit:

 

I think Roy's chin was fine, however I wouldn't mention Montell Griffen trying to make that point :: Griffen couldn't hit worth a shit. Toney,Ruiz and Tarver are good examples of him taking decent shots though.

 

But if his chin is China, and he CLEARLY got hit in the second one......where am I losing you?

BTW, Griffen only hurts guys chins with the letters DM as their initials ::

 

Jones WAS hurt in the 1st and 3rd Tarver fights. Significantly so in the 3rd actually...and that was the fight where he did nothing but run for 12 rounds.

 

You'd think a China chin would fall everytime he got "hurt" :dunno:

 

Didn't hurt DM to bad as Griffen was being walked down afterwards. Griffen couldn't punch at all. I would never use him as an example as why a fighter takes a good shot. Not sure why you have to be a smartass and so defensive, I said Roy's chin was fine.

 

I'm not being a smartass, well maybe to other people to read using their logic :dunno: I am saying if he has a china chin, even "light hitting" Griffen would knock him down :dunno:

DM was hurt, he looked like he was on queer street to me :dunno:

 

Even Oulette (worst chinned 'decent' fighter of all-time) didn't fall everytime he was hurt. He just wobbled or went into a shell.

Jones clearly had a suspect beard.....hard to say if it was on Oulette level though.

 

:: :laughing:

:doh:

 

So taking shots makes you china chinned now? Maybe this is why I don't see eye to eye with some of you::

 

How is that funny :notallthere:

I got the tape :dunno:

 

Yeah, you can really take that out of what I said. If you have trouble seeing eye to eye with others, its probably because you have your one eye, focused directly on Roy Jones.

 

I just cannot agree or attempt to agree using an example where they DIDN'T fall down as being china chinned, Roy or anyone for that matter :dunno:

 

Name me a fighter whom you think has a "china chin".

 

Marcus Rhode :blobbox: