Arum and Warren to have discussions re Calzaghe-Pavlik at 168 in the fall

This is a thread about Calzaghe/Pavlik, and someone is talking shit about Pavlik's comp!? Peter Manfredo begs to differ.

 

I did. I believe he's stronger than Pavlik. I've led. Now can you explain why I'm wrong? Thanks.

 

You had who winning? Please don't say Roy ::

Anyway, I told you already what I think about Calzaghe-Roy. I think it's all bad for Calzaghe. Roy is just as fast, even at this stage, and is too awkward. Maybe Calzaghe can outpoint him. He does throw a lot of junk.

C

 

::

He throws a lot but I think that may be his undoing against Jones. In fact, I think he'll be more successful if he keeps Jones' back AWAY from the ropes and in the center of the ring, where Jones' slowed reflexes will be exposed. But he won't resist backing Jones into a corner and wailing away.

 

You mentioned it as a reason for picking Calzaghe, implying it was an important factor in the fight.

I'm waiting for you to lead that discussion, not just state a belief.

 

I mentioned it among many things - if you disagree, state why. I'm not filling out a questionnaire, I'm discussing boxing. So if you have a point, make one.

 

Jones goes into a shell when he's against the ropes. Calzaghe will get points just for being busier and throwing punches - even if many are blocked - because Jones won't doing much of that when he's got both his gloves/arms protecting that chin of his.

 

Personally I really want to see Hopkins-Jones II. It's the perfect time for both guys.

 

I think that if there's one thing Jones has rectified since his prime years, it's his ability to fight off the ropes. Tarver tried to do what he did in the first fight with Roy in part III and quickly realized it wasn't going to work. Hanshaw tried the same thing, as did Ajamu. Jones' game with his back againstt he ropes is far more refined than it was in, say, 2002? Old fighters get better there.

But where he's vulnerable is in the center of the ring, where one mis-timed leaping left hook will introduce him to the canvas. Or where using his reflexes to get out of the way (see Tarver II) could produce something similar.

Just my thoughts.

 

I don't think Jones wants to punch with anyone when he's against the ropes. I think he prefers waiting between punches/flurries and then letting his hands go.

If he does that against Calzaghe, workrate will be a huge factor...and Calzaghe is willing to settle for slapping flurries. ::

It's why I don't think the Hopkins fight is in any way comparable to a Jones fight.

 

I think you're wrong. I think Jones will punch effectively in spurts with his back against the ropes, as he did in Tarver III, Ajamu, and Hanshaw. In combinations instead of single shots like Hopkins did. Sure Calzaghe will win some rounds. But really, Hopkins only had to land a few more clean shots per round to win them. he didn't.

 

I don't recall Jones doing anything effectively in Tarver III.

 

We disagree then.

As for Hopkins, completely different style. Hopkins' entire style is based on limiting the number of punches and exchanges in a given round and he's become a master at doing it. It's helped him last as long as he has, and I think he's too set in it to change.

 

Yup. You're right. And that's because he spent much of the fight posing in the middle of the ring. When he finally tried to turn it up in the latter rounds, he walked into the hook.

But where he had his success was when he was pinned against the ropes. Round five and part of round six. That was before Tarver realized Jones was too scared to do anything in the middle of the ring.

 

This is only partly true. Hopkins also threw a lot more as the fight progressed. So in the latter rounds, his output increased as his opponent's decreased. Not so against Calzaghe. So I don't think it was because he was too set in his ways, he just simply didn't have the energy to match Calzaghe's. A shame really because Joe C. was tiring himself.

 

Roy Jones? That guy is a washed up hasbeen who is not a real factor at 175 anymore. He should retire. Sorry but his great wins (:laughing: ) over Ajamu,Hanshaw and a fat Trinidad just don't convince me of shit.

 

I didn't see it that way. I thought Calzaghe was starring to clearly get the better of it in the fight before Hopkins took a rest...which is also when his activity started going up.

It's a different fight if Hopkins doesn't get that extended rest for what looked like a tap below his belt.

 

Unless you think Taylor would do the same? What even though Pavlik hits a lot harder, and commits to his punches far more, and is also more consistently aggressive?

 

Nonsense! Pavlik is Jermain Taylor with a white mask on! Same guy.


::

 

Roy has a much better chance at beating Calzaghe then Pavlik does. Pavlik will get his ass kicked like Lacy did.

 

Lacy is ruined. In fact very ruined mentally. Calzaghe couldn't have fucked his career up more with the use of fire arms.

 

It's like you guys are stuck in 2003.

 

Pavlik is very hittable. Calzaghe isn't. Calzaghe will eat Pavlik up.

Roy Jones has much better D and still has crazy speed that would give Calzaghe alot of problems. Hopkins provided a blueprint with the right hand leads, which is a very effective punch for Roy Jones. Sure Roy isn't what he used to be. He can't fight 12 rounds no more. The rounds he would fight in against Calzaghe he would be much more effective in then Pavlik would.

 

For the record, I would pick Calzaghe over both guys. Pavlik is live. Jones isn't.

Did you guys miss Jones/Tarver III? I love Roy Jones. HUGE fan. Lets be serious here though.

 

I think Calzaghe beats both also. To me Roy Jones is at least gonna be competitive and Pavlik wouldn't be. If Roy could fight 12 rounds i would pick him for sure. This fight would be like the Hopkins fight where his higher output would win the fight.

I just don't see how Pavliks style can give Joe problems. A slow straight ahead guy who is very easy to hit doesn't give me too much confidence that he can be competitive with Calzaghe. Jones' crazy speed would at least give Calzaghe problems and something to worry about.

 

This story, if there are grains of truth to it, is excellent news. It is by miles and miles and MILES the most meaningful fight out there for either man right now.

All this talk of Joe fighting Roy instead is garbage- people are living in a fantasy land. Roy has been done and dusted as an elite fighter for years now. Beating a shot and wholly inactive (and blown up) Tito and the epitome of mediocrity that is Hanshaw does NOT take away from this fact. Claiming otherwise is fanciful in the extreme.

Joe fighting Roy would be nothing more than a $$$$$$ fight. It would do nothing to enhance Joe's legacy, presuming as I am that Joe would win a very wide UD if that fight came to fruition.

Fighting and beating Pavlik, on the other hand would enhance his legacy enormously. Pavlik is the unbeaten and undisputed 160lb champ of the world. Calzaghe is the unbeaten and undisputed 168lb champion of the world. Why would anyone not wanna see this fight more than Joe or Pavlik v A.N Other (including THIS version of RJJ)?

Although I'd favour Calzaghe fairly heavily to win (about 70-75%), Pavlik would be very live and, in a lot of spots, very dangerous, though I do think it's a bad style match-up for Kelly. Calzaghe is a lot stronger than some naysayers are trying to say, and his punching power at 168 is good, though not outstanding. Both of these elements are underrated in Joe's arsenal, and Kelly might find himself surprised in both areas.

In any event, to reiterate, this would be a fantastic fight, and if it comes off, the betterment to boxing could not possibly be overstated.

MTF opcorn:

 

He was - but one can make the case Hops won the first 3-4 rounds. I agree that the fight wouldve been a lot different of Hops didn't get a blow.

 

I agree that case can be made (four might be pushing it though) but it may have been more about Calzaghe starting slowly...Hopkins is a hard fighter to adjust to and it took him a while to do it.

I thought Calzaghe started to really get into the fight in the middle rounds, which is the same time he started to take over the Kessler fight.

He had to fight a much more disciplined fight than he's used to, but he started bringing his punches up the middle and scoring with some jabs and straight lefts and I thought he was poised to perhaps sweep the remainder of the fight clearly before the break in the action.

 

Hopkins won the first 3 rounds clearly, at that point I was pretty sure he'd win the fight. Then Calzaghe won every round after that, apart from maybe the 10th.

Still, believing Pavlik would KO Roy means that you must think Taylor would too is one of the most preposterous things I've heard in a while ::

 

Yeah cuz his chin went untouched in his previous 50 bouts.

Bums - Frazier, Telesco
Used Up - Going 12 pathetic rounds with McCallum

Funny, similar things have been said about his opponents before.