Average, Good, Very Good, Great, Legendary...

Sorry,.. but Lennox Lewis, deserves the highest honour you can possibly give him,......:boohoo: and despite the fact alot of people want to,......... don't even think of ranking Mike Tyson above him.

 

I'd put Lewis at the top too. He did everything he needed to do I thought.

 

Yep. Lewis is in the top bracket for me.

 

Oscar is, Shane, nah.

 

Would any one rate Pacquiao or Mayweather jr as very good for now and until they meet and whoever wins class them as legendary?

 

Other legendary picks - Larry Holmes and Roberto Duran

 

Yep agree.

 

Oscar is "Very Good" and not a bit higher.

There are 20 Welterweight/Sub Welterweight Champs/Contenders right now whom I think would not only have beaten Oscar, but would have done it HANDILY.

Prime Pea
Hearns
Ray Leonard
Ray Robinson
Basilio
Gavilan
Shane Mosley {::}
Jose Napoles
Emile Griffith
Roberto Duran
Arguello
Pryor
etc......

.....................the list goes on. All of those guys would have beaten any version of Oscar. I just dont see Oscar cracking into that elite bracket.

Oscar was the classic example of the modern, previous-day-weigh-in fighter, utilizing a size advantage over naturally smaller men like Chavez, an old Whittaker, who most likely beat him, Oba Carr, Ike Quartey, whom he barely beat and never rematched, another MINUS against him.

I just dont see Oscar as "GREAT"....."Great" fighters dont go down off one slap to the midsection. Great fighters dont blow chunks for the last 3 rounds against a guy like Trinidad. More pertinently, they dont burn gas for 9 rounds running in the first place.

Nah...Oscar was VERY GOOD, at best.

 

Bernard Hopkins is another guy who should not get anywhere near Great, or Legendary.

 

Agreed, absolutely. But whatever your classification of him he belongs above Cotto. And he belongs somewhere above Mosley too, but thats just revisiting a too recent conversation....

 

Way I see it -

guys who belong in the top 5 of a given original 8 division = legendary. Plus a few others who were more multi divisional or campaigned in newer divisions.

5-15 type listing or the equivalent weighted level of achievement by a multidivisional or newer division guy = 'Great'

15-25 (or equivalent) = VERY good.

Guys who held their title for a while or had a couple of very good wins but didn't reach any of the above levels = good champion.

Guys who did nothing exceptional but did nothing to embarrass themselves or the sport = average.

Duckers, cheaters, bitches, protected champs, etc = below average champs.

 

Average: Gatti, Ward
Good: Mosley, Judah
Very Good: Chavez, Hagler, Hearns
Great: Hopkins, Duran, Leonard
Legendary: Jones, Mayweather, Robinson

 

Nah, Lennox is a Level BELOW Ali, in REED's Opinion...

Here's REED's Heavyweight Assessment:

Legendary : Ali, Joe Louis
Great: Lennox, Larry Holmes,
Very Good: Tyson, Holyfield, Liston, Foreman
Good: Riddick Bowe
Average: Ken Norton


REED:hammert:

 

Where would you make room for these fellows on those lists --- Barrera, De La Hoya, Marquez, Morales, Tszyu, Castillo, Casamayor?

 

::

"Ya'll Musta Forgot" the ----> :stir:

CLEARLY, Sugar Shane's a Level ABOVE Zab Judah...2 Levels, More than Likely...Hagler & Chavez were TRUELY Great...Duran & Leonard were LEGENDARY...

& Sorry, Floyd ISN'T "Legendary" Just Yet...



REED:hammert:

 

Your Mayweather nuthugging has become old. No way in hell is he legendary.

 

:crafty: "Legendary" = Old school american protectionism,.. can't help but think Reed factors Ali's various well documented media quips and poems aswell as his heroic fight for civil rights and his general story, all inserted into that stratusphere. As for Joe Louis,.. :crafty: ..that's just old school american protectionism with less bells and whistles.

 

New category:

Legendarily overrated pieces of shit: Duran, Holyfield

 

Why don't you rate Duran as Legendary?

 

Here is my point Reed..Vitali Klitschko will never be regarded as anything other than average, but for me, he absolutely beats the shit out of Ken Norton.....yet Ken Norton came within a shade of beating Larry Holmes {this was in 1978 when Norton was passed his best} who is ranked as "Great"......:dunno::dunno:

 

For what it's Worth, REED would Rate Vitali as a "Good" Heavyweight, Bordering on "Very Good"...Even Though his Era is Weaker, Vitali has ALWAYS Been @ or Near the TOP of his Era...Conversely, Norton was NEVER @ the Top of his Era...

The Closest Norton Came was Nearly Beating a YOUNG Larry Holmes...Holmes BECAME "Great", but he WASN'T "Great" when he Faced Norton...



REED:hammert:

 

To Date, NO Heavyweight has Been Able to Mimic Cassius Clay's Manner of Fighting to the Level of SUCCESS that He Did...6'3, 215 w/Lightning Speed & Reflexes...& Clay was Doing this MORE than 40 Years Ago!!!...

Based SOLELY on Fighting Ability, Clay/Ali is LEGENDARY...


REED:hammert:

 

Lewis is a top 5 all-time heavyweight for me, and quite easily slots into the legendary bracket.

 

Average: Zab Judah, Jorge Arce.
Good: Jose Luis Castillo, Miguel Cotto, Tito Trinidad, Shane Mosley.
Very Good: Joe Calzaghe, ODLH, JMM.
Great: RJJ, Pacquiao, Whitaker, Mayweather, Hopkins.
Legendary: Robinson, Armstrong, Duran, Ali.

 

Fixed for you. Though Judah straddles between good and average, Mosley between good and very good and Floyd between very good and great.

 

Agreed. Somebody with some context and objectivity.

 

Fair list although i would be tempted to add either trinidad or mosley to very good

 

You could say the same for Lewis,.. he's the pioneer for the new era of giant heavyweights, the period where the Tyrannasaurus rex evolved and became the worlds most dangerous and feared predator,..historically if you were too large in the heavyweight division, your slow mobility slid you down the gullet of rounded 200lb beasts. If only it were written in an ancient article next to ye ol' 'newspaper decision' ... :crafty:

 

Nah, I think he's got it right as is.

 

Good: RJJ