Best offensive fighter of all time:Roy Jones Jr

& Roy KO'ed Vinny Paz, Merqui Sosa, Montell Griffin, Virgil Hill, Richard Hall & Jeff Lacy...Roy DROPPED James Toney, Mike McCallum, Reggie Johnson & Julio Gonzalez...

:dunno:

@ WORST, that's ON PAR w/Duran's List of Victims...Probably BETTER...Unless Duran had a Cameo in 'Blazing Saddles', REED Doubts Very Seriously that he KO'ed a Horse...



REED:hammert:

 

Tyson had ZERO inside game, that automatically disqualifies him

 

above Arguello???

no way

Arguello is like a 130 pound Joe Louis, his arsenal was every bit as stocked

 

It's not a knock on Arguello to say that:

Joe Louis was simply the perfect offensive machine. Perfect!

 

I fail to see much of a difference between the two, at least not large enough to describe Louis as "head and shoulders" above him

Louis had faster hands, Arguello was a better body puncher

other than that, they are remarkably similar

 

His uppercut up close was lethal and something every fighter had to watch for on the inside.

 

Maybe Joe should have tried best counter puncher of all time or best offensive punch thrower of all time. At least then it would have been more arguable.

 

haha you are one dumb faggot haha::

 

Jeez, you 2 still beefing?

 

but that was it... if he didnt land it, hed just stop throwing and wait to get tied up

 

uhm, has anyone mentioned pacquiao?

the relentless beating he inflicted on morales in the rematch was downright scary.

 

he beat him pretty badly in the second fight too. and how about his beat-down of Barrera, ODH, Cotto and Hatton?

Pacquiao certainly is a superior offensive fighter to RJJ, that's for sure. Whether he's the best of all time? I'm hesitant to call anyone the best in that department, but Pacquiao's as good a choice as any, that's for sure.

 

can you use your x-ray vision to tell if his gloves are loaded the way you can with Trinidad?

 

i was referring to the second morales fight, hence why i called it a rematch.

anyways, you're right, it's hard to call anyone best of all time in any department if you ask me.

but i'll say this as a non pacquiao fan - although his defense and composure has been questioned earlier on his career, still, he's been an offensive beast at any weight class he's competed in, which is why i separate him from any other fighters i've seen.

 

i haven't posted in forever, I choose to read one thread, and I stumble across "Roy Jones is the best offensive fighter of all time, or is "in the discussion""

That is fucking idiotic of the highest order, and a good reason not to just not

 

The Return of PIMPLY Faced Erin, aka., BUMPY Johnson...Tell YOUR Girl that "Ol' U Know Who" Said "Hello"...Then Go BACK Into Hiding, Homegirl....



REED:hammert:

 

Have you seen Tyson's fights with Pinklon Thomas, Jesse Ferguson, Jack Michael Johnson, and most of the names in Tyson's prime? His game was not longrange and he was a crunching bodypuncher. His first droppage of Spinks was from a bodyshot. He cracked Bonecrusher Smith's ribs. Tyson definitely had an inside game.

 

The second fight with Morales was the rematch. Do you mean the third fight?

 

you are confusing landing punches from mid-range with the ability to work at close quarters against an opponent who is smothering you

bodyshots do not constitute "having an inside game"

you can score with bodyshots from mid-range even you are short like Tyson was

whenever he was smothered, Tyson would throw no more than a single shot and would routinely allow himself to be tied up... he had no inside game at all

compare, say, with someone who had a great inside game like Robert Duran for example... smothering Duran was next to impossible, he could throw punches with a few inches of breathing room, effective combinations, forcing the opponent to fire back or get out... THAT is an inside game

 

post buster douglas you are 100% correct. before that tyson was throwing some pretty viscious uppercuts from the inside early in his career...

 

to some extent, perhaps, Tap... but even pre-Douglas, you could make Tyson stop punching entirely by doing little more than leaning on him (see Tony Tucker, and Bonecrusher Smith, both of whom essentially survived to lose lopsided decisions by basically refusing to engage him and just leaning on him in close) ... now, of course this was not in and of itself a way to WIN for an opponent, but it was a way to stop the punches from coming... in order to win you had to not only smother him like that, but you had to PUNISH the man, and there were not too many brave souls willing to do that (Holyfield later being the most obvious exception to a still dangerous Tyson) ... it was either that or you outboxed him from long range, and at the time of his prime years, no such fighter existed with the toughness that was required for that (i.e. no Ali, no prime Larry Holmes)

I still say, even in his prime, the best you could hope for from Tyson when he was smothered is that he would try the uppercut as a single punch with no combination, and if it worked it was terrific but more often than not it didn't, and the uppercuts he was famous for tended to happen more at his own arms length rather than truly INSIDE... it certainly isnt enough to say he had even a reasonable inside game, much less a good one, especially compared with fighters who were Il Duces of the inside game like Duran, Frazier (who managed to be tremendous on the inside with basically a one-handed approach) , Chavez, Ruben Olivares, etc.

 

Agreed 1000%. People are deceived at the nature of Mike's style by how short he was....he was exclusively a mid range fighter. Very limited stylistically in fact.

If you're talking about '1-dimensional' world class fighters Mike would have to top the list. Can't fight going backwards, can't fight in and out in a rhythm, can't fight inside, can't fight at long range because of his height. Definition of a 1 trick pony.

 

phonetap understands what you are saying however he slightly disagrees. cus d'amato essentially trained mike to be an inside fighter. tyson has short arms so he had to get close and on the inside to land his power shots. classic tyson was a right hook to the body followed up with the uppercut (see jessie ferguson)...watch early tyson, he typically drilled a hook to the body (to bring his opponents hands down) before throwing the uppercut. tyson threw punches in bunches early in his career.

all the fighters you mentioned, phonetap won't question that they were better inside fighters however none of them had mike's two fisted power. if mike hit you clean upstairs the first time (either hand), more often than not, there was no need to a followup. as tyson's career progressed he fell in love with his power to the detriment of his overall development.

 

you are buggin' out...the way you say it, tyson was a straight up bum.

 

Im a big Tyson fan, but he was only capable of one thing. One. He was prodigiously good at it (and he brought every punch in the game to applying it) but strategically there wasn't even a plan A2, never mind a plan B.

 

thats not fighting "inside"

all of that happened at what for Tyson was mid-range

inside means, you have to shorten your punches, you have to work your way out of being smothered... Tyson was in no way, shape or form good at that ever

 

you said tyson can't fight on the inside and phonetap is telling you that wasn't the case early on in his career. mike forgot most of his training once he surrounded himself with YES men. those guys didn't care about mike, just wanted to get access to his money. phonetap said pre douglas tyson but it probably went a few fights before that as cdogg alluded to. early mike tyson did the things you guys simply forgot about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYk7YNpQ9E0

if you say mike didn't or couldn't fight on the inside here then you either forgot or are buggin out. phonetap was a HUGE tyson fan and it drove him nuts to watch mike throughout his career forget his roots and what made him great to begin with. wasted skills and talent...

 

no, he is saying that he was phenomenally gifted at fighting at mid-range while coming forward, this alone made him light years above being any kind of bum... he threw exceptionally hard and fast with both hands... but again this was mid-range for him... it could look INSIDE because he was shorter than his opponents, but it was always mid-range, arms length

his inside game was severely limited and there was no outside game at all, Tyson could not fight going backwards

HutHut didnt say anythign that wasnt true, nor was he really disparaging him by essentially describing him as an extremely accomplished one-trick pony

 

rewatch the ferguson fight then phonetap dares you to come back and tyson didn't knock him out on the inside...shortening puches and everything.

 

Tap, the action in that fight is happening at what is Tyson's mid-range... the fact that he is shorter than Ferguson does not mean he is truly inside when he is fighting him... this seems to be perplexing people... at no point is he forced to work his way out of being smothered... he is able to throw his punches at full extension