Best offensive fighter of all time:Roy Jones Jr

its funny, the very fight you are showing us references the problem vividly... he simply allows himself to be tied up, he doesnt figure a way to punch out of it, and its all because he continously makes the mistake of getting too close, falling in rather keeping at arms length

 

fuck it, there is no talking to you on this. the problem with the internet is everybody is right and never concedes a point even when proven wrong...

 

I wasnt proven wrong... for christ's sake, the guy was DQd for holding!

 

obviously you skipped past the previous round. you were proven wrong unless walking a guy back into the ropes, throwing inside combinations, leaning head to head as you drill a right hook to the body, followed up with a uppercut constitutes mid range fighting.

bottom line, you've made your mind up, tyson never won a fight on the inside because he could never do it so there is no sense debating it. phonetap has given up on debating folks that don't want to see another side to things. phonetap told you he understands your points but slightly disagrees on the tyson can't fight inside theory. if you cannot see phonetap's point then so be it. until next time...

 

Yes. He was DQ'd. He could not deal with Tyson, LEGALLY. As a result, he allowed himself to be DQ'd. Tyson's inside game won him the fight.

A fighter's getting neutralized by holding is not a sign of his lack of skill, but rather that of his opponent's. And it's why it's an illegal tactic.

And hence the decision of the NYSAC to officially rule the fight a TKO.

Let's see. Your claim is that Tyson wasn't a good inside fighter because he didn't do it from the outside?

The issue is, almost nobody, including Lewis, was willing to fight Tyson on the inside. That doesn't mean he wasn't skilled there - in fact, it suggests he was superior there. And he was.

 

you are both fantastically misinformed...

being short means you have to be relatively, RELATIVELY "close" to your opponent to land your punches... thus, Tyson would bob and weave so he could be CLOSE ENOUGH to land his punches

That is NOT what "Inside" means

He wasnt SHORTENING punches, he wasnt working inside someone else's punches offensively... THAT is what INSIDE means

Joe Frazier with his head in a guy's chest pounding the body and coming up with the hook to the head over and over ... Roberto Duran with his head rested on his opponent's shoulder, bludgeoning him with short body punches, rolling under a counter or attempted hold and continuing to pound the body... Ruben Olivares forcing the opponent to trade short range hooks... Bennie Briscoe making a guy bang heads with him and trade in a phonebooth... THOSE are inside fighting

Throwing uppercuts and hooks from your natural range is not "inside"... it is mid-range, the illusion of it being some kind of "inside' game comes from Tyson being so short, but it is not what fighting on the inside really is

 

Exaggerate much?? That's not what he said. Tyson WAS one-dimensional. He was VERY good at that one dimension, but he didn't have a lot of other facets to his game.

 

I see your point. But let's face it - anyone who obliged Tyson on the inside, as in your examples, didn't last long.

Tyson never really "lived" on the inside, like the guys did that you mentioned (although Briscoe isn't the best example IMO).

 

Frazier is the only one of those guys who lived on the inside

 

Roy Jones was not the best offensive fighter of all time. Except when he spoke. Then he became really offensive.

 

When I say, "lived," I don't mean that he necessarily spent all his time there, only that he can be there for an extended period of time and be effective there.

Tyson, I think due primarily to his opponents unwillingness to oblige him on the inside, never spent any extended periods of time there - generally, whether he landed or not in close, he'd get tied up.

Also, I don't buy into the idea that it's one fighter's responsibility, or even that it's within his control, to make his opponent fight inside and not tie up. If an opponent is dead-set against fighting inside, and knows how to clinch, he can flat out neutralize any inside game a fighter may have. Which I think is why holding was made illegal. But of course, it's never enforced consistently if at all.

 

show me the fighters who were able to do that against Robert Duran and Ruben Olivares and I will show you a flying pig

when Tyson WAS engaged on the inside, he was STILL ineffective