Better Fighter: Leonard or Whitaker

I don't get it he's usually a sweet heart. It must be all that estrogen in his body making him lash out. That would explain his big floppy man breast.

 

Big, Floppy Man Breast???...

You Must Have REED Confused w/the Irish Incel, Who's an Admitted 5'8ish, 250+ Pounds...REED's 5'10 and Tipped the Scales at 203lbs Just This Morning...

REED Definitely Gets FAT GUY Vibes from Your Ass Though, Speaking of Man Breasts...Look @ ANY of the Recent Live Streams REED's Done...Man Breast???...





REED

 

Give it a fucking rest yous three, this is a thread about Whitaker and Leonard, not for arguing like a group of bitches

 

As for the Topic, the Answer is Ray Leonard...

The Gap btwn Leonard and Pernell Whittaker DEFENSIVELY is Much Smaller Than the Gap btwn Them OFFENSIVELY...Leonard was the BETTER, More Complete Fighter...





REED

 

I watched ODLH-Whitaker at least two times and had Pea winning by three points. This was when Oscar was not only the “Golden Boy” but also the golden child who they didn’t want to lose, so Pea—who must have upset the boxing gods somewhere along the way—was robbed once again and even he wasn’t surprised about it.

Against Tito, Pea was so far past his best and at such a huge size and (likely) weight disadvantage that the loss was never considered that big of a deal against him. If anything he got kudos off the heart and performance he gave.

 

meh, Whitaker neutralised Chavez and then scored with a few jabs...I think he won but a performance like that deserves a robbery

 

Spoken like a true boxing fan.

No wait, the opposite of that.

 

I see where you're going with that. In the purest sense boxing is the art of hitting and not getting hit. And Pea was a master at that and no argument from me there. On the flipside of the coin performances like that don't bring the crowds by the truckloads. Not exactly fan friendly fights. Pea fights are the cure for insomnia and was never a ppv draw and died broke because of it.

Feb. 27, 2014— -- Former welterweight boxing champ Pernell “Sweet Pea” Whitaker's latest battle was a court fight to evict his mother from her house and he described his court victory as a "beautiful moment."

Once a celebrated millionaire boxer and 1985 Olympic gold medalist, Whitaker is now struggling to pay his bills and needed to sell the house which he gave to his mother nearly 30 years ago, according to his lawyer. His fall from grace and solvency involved numerous incidences of drug abuse and a history of arrests and run-ins with police. But Whitaker's final falling out with his family came to an ugly end in a Virginia court on Wednesday.

 

I'm not saying it was boring, but always feel he coulda done a little more to secure the win against the house guy

 

Winning 8/9 rounds is more than enough to beat any house guy. Winning 7 is enough. Whitaker won clearly and the idea he did it by running is flat out wrong, he beat Chavez on the inside easier than he did on the out. Chavez's only success was the rounds he could consistently fight at mid-range. Whitaker didn't allow him that.

 

agreed. whitaker was the bigger stronger fighter and hurt chavez to the body, and especially to the scrotum.

 

evidently not

 

I honestly don't remember scoring it for Chavez. As a Chavez fan I was disappointed and thought Chavez got frustrated with Pea's track meet style at times. But to say there is no way anyone could think it was even close or a razor thin win for Chavez is a flat out lie. To me this fight reminds me of the Mandela effect because half of the people saw this as clear land slide victory for Pea while the other half saw it as a close fight or a draw. Almost as if some people are living in alternate realities. And it happens all the time. A recent example is the Tank Davis vs Isac Cruz fight. Some people saw a close fight that could have gone either way others like my man REED thought Tank clearly dominated Cruz. To put it simply there are many examples of where a clear underdog does better than expected vs an undefeated Marquee fighter and therefore their performance is overblown. We Saw that with Castillo vs Mayweather and to a lesser degree Maidana vs Mayweather 1. The bottom line is I thought Pea won but I'm ok with a draw and here are my reasons.

1)for whoever said "Nobody could see Chavez winning" Freddie Pacheco had Chavez ahead by the 7th round. This was a classic boxer vs puncher. Chavez took the early rounds, Pea the middle rounds and after the 7th it was split evenly imo.

2)Chavez was landing the heavier body shots that a lot of times are not even counted by some fans or judges.

3)Pea was a dirty fighter. He was warned several times for deliberately hitting way below the belt but Cortez who is one of the worst referee(See Ortiz vs Mayweather) never deducted a Point. He also deliberately hit after the break and bell. He tried to push the referee out of the way wich is in some cases an immediate dq.

4)Pea's track meet style made it hard for anyone to look good against. His pitty pat shoe shines stole a lot of rounds but clearly Chavez was doing more damage to the body. It's obvious because Chavez chased him for most of the 12 rds except for one or two rds Pea was bringing it to Chavez.

I mean people can bitch and moan Pea won and maybe he did but fuck him and his boring tap tap run like a bitch style. Never Been a fan of the Erislandy Lara types. There I said it. I'm ok if he got robbed.

 

yeh i think alot comes down to how defense is scored...some seem to be so impressed by a fighter slipping shots that they have them winning even though they don't land in return


and also how the fuck can Willie Pep win a round without throwing a punch, gtfo, he lost that round undoubtedly

 

It’s just a myth. The round was supposed to be against Jackie Graves. People at cyber boxing zone researched the rounds in question and the writers at the time said Pep was throwing a lot of punches

 

Leonard easily. Whitaker was definitely great of course but I think Leonard's overall talents and his ability to beat greats like Benitez, Duran, Hearns, and Hagler outshines Pea.

 

Lenny

 

worst thing whitaker does is hold and hit. he does it constantly - as a south paw, it is his go-to move. but it is illegal.

 

I would disagree with that by a lot.

Benitez and Hearns were at the absolute apex of their powers when Leonard beat them. Duran wasn't at his best in the rematch, but I would still take that particular version of Duran over any Chavez.

 

I wouldn't consider losing almost every round to Hearns a particularly spectacular performance, just a spectacular finish. Benitez is an absolutely amazing performance though, no question about it.

I wouldn't take that version of Duran against even the Chavez who fought Whitaker (who hadn't slipped at all from his fights with Camacho, or arguably even Taylor), let alone any Chavez. Leonard was amazing that night, but Duran was spectacularly poor. I never got the weird idea of Duran being close to even on the cards, and definitely not up

 

Yeah but Leonard had physical tools. Whittaker was a tiny little southpaw.

 

The 1st Handful of Leonard-Hearns I Rounds WEREN'T Easy to Score; There was a LOT of Posturing and "Feeling Out"...Then Ray HURT Tommy and Beat the Shit Out of Him for the Next Couple Rounds Before Hearns SWITCHED UP and Decided to Use Height/Reach/Length...

Yes, Hearns was WINNING @ the Time of Stoppage, But a Knockdown was Ruled in the 13th, Then of Course the 14th Round Stoppage...Saying Leonard was "Losing Almost Every Round" Just Doesn't SOUND Right, for Whatever Reason...

As for Duran's Performance in Leonard II, He Could've ALWAYS "Injured" His Hand, Suffered a "Cut" or Any Other Number of Excuses...Yes, Leonard Exercised the Immediate RE Clause and Duran Allegedly Blew Up to Nearly 200lbs Celebrating the Victory in Montreal, But AGAIN, If You're NOT READY, Don't Fight...

Duran Had the Title and the W, So Had He POSTPONED the RE, What Exactly Was Leonard Gonna Do About It, Besides WAIT???...






REED

 

As a fan I always enjoy exciting fights. To each his own but I don’t particularly enjoy fights where one guy is extremely defensive to the point where he doesn't let the other guy engage. That's why I was never a fan of Floyd(Money not Pretty boy that stopped Corrales) or guys like Erislandy Lara. Pea was a very defensive fighter as well he would make people miss but to be fair he was also a front foot type of fighter. Like Lomachenko. He made shit happened. It's evident in the Chavez fight where stood in the pocket and landed at will on Chavez which is no easy task. Pea was a lot more fun to watch than Mayweather.

 

It Gets DICEY If You're Unfamiliar w/a Fighter But If/When You KNOW Defense is Part of his Game, it's Easier to Score Defense/Ring Generalship...

Wilder-Fury I is a Prime Example of This, in REED's Opinion...

There Wasn't a LOT Going On "Early Doors", But the Fight was Clearly to Fury's LIKING, His PACE...So Even w/Few Landed Punches, REED Scored Many of the Early Rounds for Fury Based on Defense/Ring Generalship...

People SAY They Score/Officiate Fights as if They Know NATHAN About Either Combatant, but That's Dumb AF in REED's Opinion...It's Actually EASIER to Score a Fight When You've Familiarized Yourself w/the Combatants...

REED Interviewed Richard Steele Several Years Ago and he Admitted to WATCHING Guys He Was About to Ref, Leading Up to Their Bouts...& Why WOULDN'T He???...

All That Said, the Willie Pep Thing is Bullshit...You Can't EVADE Confrontation an Entire Round, Throw/Land ZERO Punches, Yet Have that Round Scored in Your Favor...But in Rounds Relatively DEVOID of "Clean Punching" and "Effective Aggression", "Defense" and Ring Generalship" Becomes More Important...





REED

 

agREED...

Pernell's Defense was More About Head/Upper Body Movement, Whereas Floyd Mostly Relied on His LEGS...It's Also EASIER & SAFER to Play Defense the Way Floyd Did, Than they Way Pernell Did...





REED

 

I find it hard to believe that Pep myth.

All the film of Pep suggest that he wasn't a negative fighter. He didn't have much pop, but he always scored points BEFORE making guys miss.

Did that fuckin blowhard Bert Sugar create that myth?

 

Sounds like a Bert SugarISM for Sure...

Another One That IRKED the Shit Out of REED was Sonny Liston Being Afraid of a "Crazy Person" and Therefore SPOOKED By Ali's Pre-Fight Antics...Sonny Liston Wasn't AFRAID of Shit...




REED

 

Sugar was literally just making up shit on the spot.

 

Yeah, He was PURELY Anecdotal and Repetitive...

Offered NATHAN Regarding Boxing Strategy, Skill or Strengths/Weaknesses of the Fighters He Discussed...Bert Sugar was a Story Teller, Period...





REED

 

It's a myth. Not a single report of that fight mention it, and what's more, is he actually lost the given round of the cards.

Pep never won a round without throwing a punch.