BROCK LESNAR Is FOR REAL!!!...

It isn't just pro wrestlers, dude. All I'm saying, is throughout the history of the UFC, wrestlers have come in out of no where and shit on all the heavyweights. This isn't the first time it has happened.

 

But how many pro wrestlers have you even seen try? The Big Show is much stronger than Brock although not as athletic. But his strength alone gives him an advantage over the competition. Who knows what he could've done if he trained in MMA. :kidcool:

 

It'd B SUICIDAL to Try to GRAPPLE w/the Big Show, but REED Thinks MOST UFC Heavyweights Could Stick & Move Their Way to a UD Over him...He's SLOW as Fuck, Hanz...



REED:mj:

 

Uhhh. Maybe because wrestling is THE most important discipline in the sport. And wrestlers have not "shit on all of the heavyweights".

 

Traditionally they have. Once Gracie left the sport, it was dominated by wrestlers for a good 10-15 UFCs. You guys have been saying for YEARS how well rounded you have to be to compete. No matter how much you guys want to believe otherwise, a good big wrestler can come in and SHIT on most everyone.

No group of athletes are as crappy at the top level of their sport as MMA fighters are at MMA. It needs a lot more time to evolve. You guys jumped the gun.

 

Actually I was referring to the Big Show between 95-98 at his physical peak in WCW when he was "The Giant" and in his 20s. He was lean, mean and doing off the turnbuckle dropkicks. Guy was a freak of nature back then. Obviously he let himself go and doesn't train anymore.

 

Agreed. When do you see 17-18 year old pros immediately coming in and crushing the likes of Federer and Nadal at the grand slams?:: It takes a few years of extremely hard training and practice before going up against the big boys in every legit sport. At least I think it does.

 

This just shows how ignorant you are. You just previously asked me the difference in a wrestler beating a Jiujitsu guy now vs in '96. Are you kidding me??? Go watch more tapes noob. Do you realize that maybe it was dominated by wrestlers because there ARE MORE WRESTLERS at HW than any other discipline?? Simply a matter of statistics.

You say a good big wrestler can come in and shit on most anyone?? Name them. Because most of these big wrestlers have been shit on plenty of times themselves.


You dont realize that ALL of these wrestlers ARE well rounded now. Even though they center their fights on their core wrestling ability, they also have solid fundamentals in striking as well as submissions.

 

Apples and Oranges.

 

Back Then, Big Show had Good Agility FOR HIS SIZE...But it's NOT like he was Capable of Cutting Off the Ring (or CAGE as the Case May B) Against a MOBILE UFC Heavyweight...

Like REED Said, it'd B FOOLISH to GRAPPLE or Get in a CLINCH w/Big Show, but Other than That, he'd B VERY LIMITED in MMA....



REED:hammert:

 

WWE wrestler Kane in his prime back in early 90s was a shootfighter in Japan. He'd f*ck up a lot of guys in the UFC. He was fast as hell and very powerful. Much more athletic than Tim Sylvia for sure.

 

Lesnar Certainly Does...Or was it his WRESTLING that Busted Up Mir's Face????...



REED::

 

Brock Lesnar is well rounded? What's the matter with you?

And even if he is, IT TOOK HIM VERY LITTLE TIME TO BECOME WELL ROUNDED. Either he wasn't well rounded, or it's a lot easier to become well rounded that you meatballs lead people to believe. Can't have it both ways.

I have seen significantly more historically important MMA than you have, and it's fresher in my mind. You obviously struggle to stay on subject, so I'm done.

 

I garuntee Lesnar-Fedor is over in the first round

Lesnar is a best but he is just not on that level at ALL!

I think a Lesar-Kimbo fight is good..

a lesnar-Fedor fight is still and will be for a long time a Mismatch

 

that guy should go to the UFC and bust bitches up!

 

Well rounded is subjective. I simply meant that they incorporate other disciplines into their training nowdays unlike in the early days. Something that you obviously didn't understand.

And for as much as you claim to know about MMA you have said enough to me to show that you are an absolute noob and don't know shit. Only an idiot would claim to know more about something to someone who they know nothing about.

 

:: Noob. That's really funny.

Of course I understand the training differences. As early as UFC 7-8-9 they were talking about fighters who "cross-trained". It's simply going to take more than 10-15 years for the sport to reach the point that you so desperately want it to reach. I understand, you have invested a lot of time.

The fact of the matter is this - the sport of MMA is STILL at a point where a fighter with the right physical attributes can be VERY successful VERY quickly, while only being good at one discipline.

The fact that I have spent hours upon hours watching and learning about this sport (not to mention that I've been watching the early UFCs on VHS since the mid 90s... video store by my house had the first 12 available for rent) should tell you that I would also like to see it gain credibility. And it has.... just not as much as many have led the masses to believe.

I'll assume that you didn't reply to my point about not getting it both ways as a form of submission. Good talk.

 

First of all, you are basing your argument on ONE instance. Brock

Secondly, MMA is NOT at a point where a fighter with the right attributes can be VERY successful VERY quickly while only being good at one discipline. It may have been that way in the early days, but it is not anymore. Most of these types may have some success, but eventually get exposed. It really doesn't happen that much anymore.

Even though it did happen with Brock, he is extremely physically gifted, and more importantly it is only 4 fights. He still has a long way to go.

 

Even though you disagree with yourself (the part in bold) at the end of your post, I just want to point it out anyway.

Of course it's at a point where a fighter with the right attributes and be very successful very quickly because it happened LAST NIGHT. And it happened in November when he beat Couture. I just don't get what part of that point you don't understand?

Rare or not, it's possible because it just happened.

 

I was speaking in general. Of course it is possible, but you speak as if it common in the sport. It simply very rarely happens. Don't judge the whole sport on the instance of one fighter.

That is an exception, not the rule. This is extremely rare. And once again, read the rest. BROCK IS NOT DONE. He has had 4 fights. I wont make any judgement on him until he has at least 4 more legit fights.

 

And that's fair. We actually agree on a lot of this.

 

Perfect :cheer:

 

@ Speed & Agility & SUPERIOR Wrestling...Yes, Lesnar Primarily Wins BECAUSE of his Physical Gifts, but U CAN'T Minimize what he's Accomplished or how IMPRESSIVE he's Been Because of that...



REED:hammert:

 

I'm not sure why GSP/Anderson Silva should be made. The real fight out there is Anderson vs Machida. That's the best fight that can be made right now.

 

Let me first say that I cannot stand Lesnar, nor can I stand the fact that a pro-wrestler comes to the UFC and wins a belt in a few fights.

But the fact is, that Lesnar's size, strength, speed and athletic ability are more than enough to compensate for lack of experience and MMA well roundedness. And with every fight, Lesnar will learn more and get even better at defending submissions and such.

Couple that with the fact that the heavyweight division is the weakest division in MMA and you have the reason why Brock Lesnar has the UFC belt right now.

Do I think he can beat Fedor?? Not really....but his massiveness and athletic ability will be more than Fedor has had to contend with in a long while.

 

Co-sign. GSP shouldn't go up past 170, 175 for a catchweight. Machida/Silva is the best most competitive big match to be made but I've read that they are good friends and don't want to fight.:doh:

 

See, this is the problem. People still only think of Lesnar as a 'pro wrestler', completely ignoring his elite amateur wrestling background, freakish size, strength, speed and athleticism. Lesnar spent a lot more time as an amatuer wrestler then he ever did in the WWF.

I've said countless times that if Lesnar had the same attributes he has, but never wrestled for the WWF, the people that are bashing him would be all over his nuts.

TFK