Can Roy still beat Bernard?

Even YOU Know BETTER than This...

U're PISS POOR @ Trolling...


REED

 

Until Bernard proves it (he won't, I think he's looking for a match with Rafael Marquez next at a catchweight of 170lbs) then all we're left with are images of Roy plastering his face for 12 straight rounds.

 

WHY is the Word "Muscle" N Quotes???...R U QUESTIONING whether Roy Lost MUSCLE or Not???:dunno: :dunno: ....

N the Ruiz Fight,Roy was RIPPED...@ EVERY Weight he Ever Fought @,Roy was RIPPED...

He "Officially" Weighed 193 for Ruiz & was like 199 on Fightnight,SOLID MUSCLE...

Then AFTER Trying for MONTHS to Make a Heavyweight Fight,he Moved DOWN N Weight N Like 5-6 Weeks to Fight Tarver @ 175....A RIPPED Fighter LOST 25 Lbs N LESS than 2 Months...

Bob Foster was 6'3- 6'4 & SKINNY...Even Tommy Hearns had MORE MUSCLE on his Body than Bob Foster EVER Did,Nevermind the SHORTER, Roy Jones...

U're Sounding like the TYPICAL Roy Hater,w/a Built N Excuse for EVERY Positive Occurence of Roy's Career...

U're a Bernard Fan???...Well,even Bernard HIMSELF Points to Roy's DRASTIC WEIGHT LOSS, to Explain his SUDDEN Fall from Grace...

REED

 

Yin and Yang baby. Somebody's gotta keep you guys in check. ::

 

Fair Enough...

REED

ps. UConn AND the N.Y. Giants SUCK:flip: ::

 

Did you see Roys fight last week? :doh:

 

Sadly, at this point it would be hard for me to argue against that right now. :doh:



Jim Calhoun has seen better recruiting days and I've never had much faith in Eli Manning. I was actually hoping the Giants would make a play for Matt Schaub but knew they were never going to eat Mannings contract. We've got to ride this kid out until he either breaks or suddenly grows a spine in the second half of the season.












Unless of course you were talking about UCONN Womens Basketball. ::

 

dsimon writes:

Point made! I thought Toney fought better in the second part of his career live with it!!!

 

dsimon writes:

Bernard is the quinnessential Philly fighter. His inside game is one of the best ever in the square circle. It is no coincidence that so many of his opponents are worn out in the second half of the fight.

Roy was good enough to keep Bernard off of him, and all credit to Roy. It would have been nice if they had fought again.

People don't see the skill in the inside game because it is not obvious. The leverage, the ability to get shots off and not get your own head taken off, etc. The old timers fought a lot more at this distance and it is one of the reasons they neutralized certain more obvious skills like a big puncher.

When Bernard goes, Cotto and maybe to a limited degree Hatton, while they have the punching skills, are still a mere apprentice to B Hop.

 

I tend to agree that they were both "green", however, Bernard's style lent itself to improving with "age" moreso than did Roy's. Roy relied on fantastic physical gifts rather than craft and I think perhaps these were pretty much in place by the time the pair fought, whereas Bernard's ring smarts etc hadn't evolved to quite the extent they did later in his career.

 

No.





:tease:

 

Hey I'm living with the facts just fine. You're the one who has to live with his own lack of knowledge and understanding.

 

No. While both are clearly past their primes Hopkins never had to rely on speed and reflexes as much as Roy did. Hopkins is still a very good fighter. Hopkins also knows that Roy isn't what he was and would put alot more pressure on Roy. It's not like Roy wasn't getting hit the first time he fought Hopkins. Hopkins won rounds against a better Roy Jones. From a mental standpoint Hopkins has a huge advantage at this point and would impose it. In other words, Roy would fight to survive.

 

dsimon writes:

:warning: Yeah and you jut happen to have felt compelled to start a thread about Sugar Ray Leonard being better than Sugar Ray Robinson. Was that based on facts? No, it was based on your belief about one fighter being better than another fighter. And you know what Sly? I disagreed with you and posted once to state why but at the end of the day it was ok if you believed that, I didn't believe you should lose credability... It was a weird opinion to have, but hey!

I happen to think Toney had to grow up mentally past his milestones and looked better at a slightly higher weight. I especially liked his second fight with Mccallum and even Jirov.... just my preference.

It is amusing to me how you have a need to ridicule me based on some of my opinions yet you also can be quite absurd. It goes with the territory. I also happen to believe that there is a big difference between a true counter puncher who catches the guy mid-punch (like Mayweather can do) and somoene who returns fire countering after the completed punch. Wanna take some digs on that one? :eeeek:

 

Yup.

 

As we speak,Hopkins would beat Roy Jones ass.Hopkins just beat Antonio Tarver and Ronald Winky Wright and who has Roy beat or looked good against lately?.............................................................................................

 

Got to Toney early? Toney was P4P #1 or #2 at the time, and Hopkins had more pro fights than Roy at the time. :dunno:

 

Did you see Roy's last fight?

His timing was off, but as the fight wore on and Hanshaw slowed down Roy's punches were on target.

I said this that night that sometimes Roy looked like the Roy Jones of old and sometimes he looked like an old Roy Jones.

A pressuring Hopkins would benefit Roy because Hopkins isn't and never was as fast as Roy. The more Hopkins opens up with pity pat shots, the more openings Roy has.

I don't think Hopkins is any faster than Hanshaw and Roy had no trouble with Hanshaw.

I'd pick Roy to beat Hopkins. Roy simply hasn't lost enough speed to not beat Bernard.

Besides, where was Bernard's self-belief when he virtually fought the exact same fight in the rematch with Jernain Taylor?

 

Exactly...

Not to mention, Bernard's greatest victories were against Tarver, DLH, Wright and Tito.

Let's be honest...three of the four made their careers at weight classes BELOW Hopkins and Tarver, no matter what anyone wants to say had Buddy McGirt BEGGING him to get off his stool to finish the rematch with Glen Johnson.

 

....

Hopkins mauls the shit out of Roy at this point. Roy's punches don't have the same snap and his legs aren't the same.

 

Muzse, you say that now...but if the fight actually comes off and you had to bet, you'd bet Bernard because you know as well as I that Hopkins is the safer bet.

Roy doesn't believe in himself anymore and once the going gets tough, he'll just try to finish the fight. I disagree with you on Roy having a significant edge in speed. I don't see it being enough to matter and I think that Bernard is more elusive than Roy is at this stage of their careers.

Bernard takes him.

 

If this fight materalizes...I just might make a friendly bet with you Valdarver.

:bears:

 

The best way to restore confidence is to fight someone you've easily beaten once before. In the Tarver rematch, Roy had flashbacks of getting knocked out. What flashbacks would he have about Bernard?

Bernard is only more elusive than Roy because he literally walks away from you. Hopkins doesn't slip shots and when he comes in, he comes in head down, head first. All it takes is a well timed uppercut to catch him coming in.

Roy wasn't as sharp as he could have been but if he stays in the gym, he should be sharp enough to be ready for Bernard if they fought late this year or next year.

Ali-Foreman baby!!!

RJ Bumaye!!! RJ Bumaye!!!!

Read my response to Valdarver.

 

Roy was getting hit ALOT by Hanshaw who was winging the same punches over and over. I think Roy was even rattled at times. Roys reflexes are gone, theres noway he has the legs or attack to keep Hopkins from beating the shit out of him.

 

I watched it again and there were tons of shots which hit Roys forearms and gloves more than hit him directly.

Plus, Hopkins fights maybe half the round tops.

Activity would not be a concern.

I wouldn't favor Jones over Glen Johnson because Johnson fights the full three minutes.

 

I admire your steadfast loyalty even in the face of certain failure. ::

I'm as big a RJ fan as yourself and REED, but I have to be realistic. RJ is more hittable than Hopkins, doesn't have as much stamina, is not supremely confident.


The results of their first fight is irrelevant now, because Jones doesn't have the same physical advanges over Hopkins now that he had then. In those days Jones was LIGHTENING fast. He's nowhere near that speed anymore whereas Hopkins has only slowed a tad, relatively.

Hopkins is also a smarter and more versatile fighter than RJ is at this point in time. RJ's ring versatility in his prime was directly linked to his extreme athletic abilities. These have dulled considerably now. Hopkins' is simply a more cerebral fighter.

Bernard will win undoubtedly...

 

dsimon writes:

Delusional. Hopkins slips shots and manufactors angles constantly Muze. I hope they do fight. Hopkins is subtle so it is not obvious. Roy might be fast and accurate enough to still catch him coming in occasionally but Bernard is a lot better technically than you give him credit for.

 

Ye of little faith.

I understand your apprehension, but I don't agree.

Also, I doubt the fight can be made "however" don't expect a retraction of my position unless Roy has another fight and looks like complete doo-doo.

Based on what I last saw of Roy, if his timing gets a little better he'll be able to handle Bernard's rushing in.

The bottom line is, the onliest difference between Hopkins now is that he takes fewer risks than before. I can't see him changing anything in a rematch with Jones.

I don't agree that Hopkins is better defensively. "Like I said before" his idea of defense is walking away from you. There's not a lot of head movement and again, when he comes in he's staring down at his feet.

Roy would have more trouble with fighting Hopkins from a distance than if they fought in close because I don't believe that Hopkins is stronger than Roy so the wrestling/holding would tire Bernard moreso than Roy.

 

It won't and you should be happy because you would lose. Roy's lack of snap and legs at this point get him beaten. I would hope for a double KO, but would expect Hopkins to win. Prime vs Prime, Hopkins never beats Jones but as old men Hopkins is better.

 

Roy can only beat him if he brought a machinegun into the ring. A baseballbat wouldn't be enough.