Could Lucian Bute be #1 SMW?!!!!

It's true.

 

If you honestly believe that, you're a moron.

I mean, there's a reason why boxing matches are fought to a conclusion. Because 11-0 means fuck-all if you don't finish the fight.

 

Who would YOU Fancy in a 3rd Fight btwn Bute & Andrade???...



REED::

 

By getting knocked out in the final round? I don't get that perspective, there are plnety of cases of boxers who almost pitched a shutout only to be let down by a shaky chin or a careless moment. Did Julian Jackson leave "any reasonable doubt" against herol graham as to who was the better fighter after being dominated for all but a single second?

 

A great man once penned the following:

 

Well technically he did finish the fight.

Secondly it's not as if this was akin to Chavez-Taylor or Cotto-Margarito (wraps aside) where one fighters was outboxing the other guy but taking serious damage along the way.

Bute outboxed slow and dumb Andrade in both fights.

 

Was Julian Jackson EVER as BADLY OUTCLASSED as Andrade was, for All BUT the Closing MINUTE & a Few SECONDS of a Fight???...


REED:hammert:

 

Bullshit.

Bute was fighing above his means in that first fight as a direct response to the pressure he was facing. He has admitted as much multiple times since...so why can't you?

Fighters don't fall over and get stopped by themselves.

I say again; fights are fought to the finish to decide the winner. Bute didn't reach the finish line and lost.

 

The ref was disgraceful no question. Andrade certainly deserved a rematch as well.

What i'm saying is Bute was winning the first fight clearly. Everybody saw how superior he appeared to Andrade. That's why just about everybody also picked him to win the rematch.

I don't know how many would have picked Graham in a rematch with Jackson.

 

Yep...

That was Andrade's 1 in a MILLION, LOTTERY TICKET Chance of BEATING Bute...If they Met a THOUSAND More Times, Andrade would Likely Lose in Progressively WORSE Fashion....Sure, it SUCKS that a CORRUPT Referee was in the Ring that Night, but Bute QUITE CLEARLY Exhibited who the SUPERIOR Fighter was for the Vast Majority of the 1st Bout & the RE...


REED:hammert:

 

Bute was up before the count of 10, you don't lose by KO at 9.

 

I don't think it matters, basically he caught up with his opponent after being comprehensively outboxed. Either way, as mentioned above, I think Bute running out of gas in the first fight and succumbing to the pressure was a result of the effort he was forced to put in in the preceding rounds. he definitely didn't look as comfortable dealing with it as Kessler did.

 

I've already stated that I think Bute's stamina is still an issue regardless of the rematch result. But I think it is very unjust towards Bute to put more weight on the first fight than the second one, as if he was lucky to avoid the sure knockout Andrade would have had if the fight had gone on. Reading Salaco and Tam, I feel they put more weight on the first fight then the second when evaluating Bute. I don't think the second fight completely erased the first one of course, but considering Bute clearly outboxed Andrade the first time before running out of gas and knocked him out impressively in the rematch, he certainly did redeem himself, at least partially.

 

Yup, as much as I wanted Andrade to win.........Bute was on his feet in time. Corrupt referee or not.

The round was over as soon as the ref restarted the action. He would have taken no further punishment. Unlike Chavez / Taylor which still had a few seconds remaining in the round.

 

"Surprisingly", NEITHER of them Bothered to Answer when REED Asked "Who do YOU Fancy in Bute-Andrade III?"...



REED::

 

He didn't stop him though. Bute was up at the 9 count and there was no more time left in the fight. The fight was over. Bute won legit. The additional extra time the ref spent dicking around with Andrade meant nothing.

 

If there was any time left, it was over for Bute. He would not have lasted another 10 seconds. Luckily for him all he needed to do was beat the count which he did fair and square.

 

Some argue that not only do you have to beat the count, but you have to be determined ready to continue. I don't like that interpretation at all when it comes to the final round. In my opinion, getting up before the 10 count should be the end of the fight. I do agree that a fight could be waved off without giving the fighter time to get up, though. The ref's primary job is the fighters' health.

 

The ref may have taken a closer look at Bute had Andrade went to a neutral corner and stayed there. By the time his attention was back on Bute he was recovered enough.

 

But thats not how the rules work. You are given until the count of 9 to prove you're ready to continue, round over or not. The bell cannot save you in ANY round.

Bute could not continue. Fight over.

 

I dont give a fuck about the first decision,.. Bute was knocked out, thats why they had a rematch. Still, he avenged his knockout loss, and now he's worthy to hold his title. It's a solid win for a proud Arabic fighter, the middle eastern area has potential, as does China and India with thier huge populous, hopefully we see more young fighters from these regions inspired to turn professional as a result of it.

 

I didn't even read your post, mate.

In answer to it, the same person I picked for the first two fights: Bute. I was wrong about the first, right about the second. It's boxing. We're all wrong.

 

Another swing and a miss from someone with far too much time on his hands. The count is now 0-2 for MTF. ::

 

Here are the rules:

IBF Rules related to Knockdowns and Knockouts: http://www.ibf-usba-boxing.com/userfiles/File/IBF-USBA Bout Rules.pdf

4) When a fighters has been knocked down, the referee will order the standing contestant to the farthest neutral corner and begin the count. If the contestant standing leaves the neutral corner before the count has been completed, the referee shall discontinue the count and order the standing contestant back into the corner. The count will not resume until the standing contestant has returned to the neutral corner.

(This means the ref acted accordingly)

6) The bell will not save the boxer in any round of the bout. If the boxer is "downed" just before the 3-minute bell in any round, the referee's count shall continue and the bell will not ring until the boxer rises and his hands clear the floor.

(This means the bell should ring the instant the fighter is up. If it is the final round, the fight would then be over and the referee would not have the discretion to rule him unable to continue. So, in essence, the first sentence is not accurate with regard to the last round because the bell can and does save the fighter immediately when he is no longer down.)

 

C'mon Tam. REED and I have disagreed MANY times over the years. If I don't agree with what he says, I've never been shy about telling him so. And if he's right, I do the same. And regarding MTF's recent tantrum regarding Kessler, I happened to agree with REED's take on it. And there have been times when I agree with MTF and times that I don't. But I rarely get as bent out of shape as he does when folks don't agree with me.

 

That is not what it means at all. It means exactly what it says, that the bell wont ring until the fighter is deemed well to continue. Thus, the bell cannot save the fighter.

Besides, those are IBF rules. Im not sure if thats how they fought it.

 

Jeepers fuck, Tam, it was an IBF fight and I gave you the IBF rules on the point.

The bell doesn't save the fighter at the end of 3:00, but it is supposed to ring as soon as the fighter is no longer down. Immediately. There is nothing about a ref assessing if the fighter can continue. If the bell rings at the end of the final round, the fight is over and the ref no longer has the discretion to end the fight.

 

N IBF fight doesn't mean its fought under IBF juristiction, mate. I cant be fucked to go back and check the rules for the fight, but what Im saying is that I believe you interpret the rules differently to how they're applied.

A fighter is no longer down, when the ref rules he can continue. Not before.