David Haye challenging Wlad video clip

at least we can all agree on one thing - wlad is a tosspot.

 

Only if you don't know much about boxing, so yeah, that's true mainly for people like you.

 

dsimon writes:

At the time Grant was viewed as a threat very much like Haye is.... Nobody ever thought Ruiz or Byrd could challenge Lewis. Lewis took the Grant fight as he should have done for the fans... I don't know what point you are even trying to make. Grant was a dangerous fight at the time!

I don't question that in the details one can justify almost any decision Klitschko makes.... But it all comes out in the wash and it is obvious that his style of fighting and his ambitions are not such that the fans are given any consideration.

 

Lemmon ducked many..

Wlad seems to take after him

I hope they fight and Haye starches him. That would be great:bears:

maybe after he knocks him out he can undress him and violate him in the ring!! that would be the best!!!:bears: just knock him out, put him on his back and then lower his balls into Wlads mouth for pictures!!:bears:

 

"Grant was viewed as a threat very much like Haye is..."

This is the whole point of the argument, and a claim that has yet to be proven by any of Haye's advocates.

Despite the perception, Grant was did not just make a name overnight.

He first caught my attention in '96, when he took out Ed Donaldson on TNF. (No, it wasn't the opponent, it was his performance.) From around that point on, he was getting some regular tv appearances on USA, ESPN, eventually HBO.

He steadily took on a number of solid trial horses and fringe guys, like Al Cole (there's a cruiserweight champion for you), David Izon, Obed Sullivan, Lou Savarese and then Andrew Golota.

Furthermore, significant offers were made to the other up-and-coming contenders David Tua and Ike Ibeabuchi to fight (on the MSG card he ended up taking on Savarese).

Both turned him down.

Grant was a respected prospect that turned into a contender, and he was percieved as a quality threat.

Frankly, his path to a title shot is actually closer to the one Tony Thompson has taken than David Haye. (Not the television exposure part, Thompson has found that difficult, but he's steadily taken on solid opponents...and he's had some difficult getting other "top" heavyweights to fight him. Ibragimov didn't defend against him, and I think Thompson had a very good shot in that fight.)

 

dsimon writes:

You just keep splitting hairs. One could also talk about the division back when Lewis took on Grant.

You simply won't accept how weak the division is presently. It is a good instinct for a hard punching cruiser weight to want to canabilize the division when it has a lot of weak contenders. That is being enterprising and creating a niche. I have no doubt that when Lewis was at the top Hayes would not be entitled to a fight. But as the Asian Mystic said to the initiate that was Zen this tao (that was then this is now).

The division is absolute shite and Hayes has a right to think he can exploite that weakness. So you can go on splitting hairs until the cows come home brother but the fact remains that for a fan of heavy weight prize fighting Hayes versus Klitschko is a gift because it is an interesting match up. If there were ten other punchers in the division right now it would be different. From a fan's perspective this is a great fight and Hayes while inexperienced is a live dog.

What you guys are justifying is shameful: You are advocating weak division where matches are based on merit, not fan interest. The experience you site is against very weak competition and it means practically nothing when common sense is considered. What Klitschko wants is his equally risk averse and self centered brother to fight the Ibrigamov's of the division so they can both claim a championship. You shoud be ashamed of yourself if you think this is ethical or good for boxing.

 

...

 

Oh shit. If Haye tea bagged Wlad in the ring, that might be the best thing I've ever seen in boxing! :eeeek:

 

Dsimon,

If there is on some broad swell of support for this fight, prove it exists.

And come up with an example of recent cruiserweight champion moving up and getting a title shot with the #1 heavyweight champion immediately.

Here's some names you can start with:

Robert Daniels, Al Cole, Bobby Czyz, Adolpho Washington, Imamu Mayfield Juan Carlos Gomez, James Toney, Vassily Jirov.

 

David Haye doesn't tea bag, he potato sacks.

 

None of those guys were the undisputed cruiserweight champ like Haye is (Cunningham just took Bell's stripped belt) . Evander Holyfield was the last one and we all know how that turned out.

Haye isn't asking for an "immediate" shot like you claim, he's willing to knock out some Top 10 guys, and let Wlad get rid of his mandatories. Why won't Wlad at least entertain the idea? Because he's a scared chinny faggot.

 

::

 

Yeah, Bell pulled out of the Cunningham fight...KO'd by a tooth ache.

Haye can knock those Top 10 guys out and see where he's at then.

Until then, he's just talk.

 

You're right, Haye isn't as deserving as guys like Ray Austin, and Eliseo Castillo. You seem like you know a lot about boxing.

 

Most people disagreed with Austin being the mandatory because he did it in part on the strength of his draw with Ibragmov.

Problem was, most people had Austin losing the fight regardless of knockdown calls.

As for Castillo, it wasn't a mandatory so what's the point of mentioning his name?

I guess Valery Semishkur was a deserving guy, right?

 

The point was that Ray Austin got a chance simply based on the fact he was easy pickings and had a "high ranking."

Now you're trying to brush Castillo under the rug because it makes your point about mandatories and "worthiness" moot.

Why don't you just admit you don't know much about boxing?

 

It was pretty much agreed upon by everyone at the time, including the press, that Austin didn't deserve to be the mandatory.

The problem with your own example is that isn't the case with either Thompson and Povetkin.

There isn't widespread criticism of either fighter's mandatory ranking.

Frankly, the only real criticism I've read of either one is from a bunch of people on this message board, all of whom it seems have tried to characterize Klitschko as 'scared" of a cruiserweight champion.

As for Castillo, nobody's claimed he was anything more than an opponent. It wasn't holding up anybody's shot at the title...because Klitschko didn't have a title then.

Again, what's the point of bringing up his name?

 

You're arguing as if the belts are important, do you really think that's why Haye is chasing this fight?

You really don't know much about boxing.

 

::

If the belts aren't important, then why keep bringing up Haye's belts at cruiserweight?

 

Where did I specifically bring up his WBC, WBO, and WBA belts? I simply said he was the "undisputed" champion like Evander Holyfield before him.

You seriously should watch some boxing if you want to follow this sport.

 

There were four separate champions when Klitschko fought Samuel Peter in an eliminator.

To get to a unified and undisputed champion, it takes winning separate unification bouts.

 

The use of the word "faggot" is rather comical coming from someone who also wrote this little gem:

"When I'm at the 24 Fitness shower room, I'll usually get changed, and see all these kind of body builder type dudes come in acting macho. I'll sneak a peek at their dicks."

 

So are you saying that Haye wasn't the undisputed CW champ after kicking Enzo's ass?

 

If i could choose any fighter to KO another fighter right now it would be Haye knocking out Wlad.

 

Once again, sig bets are still open.

 

dsimon writes:

Again, split away.... I will even say it again. Sure guys are deserving of a chance if they are in the division, but it is not the priority. The priority is to make interesting fights that are entertaining. I never claimed that the other guys don't deserve a chance.... I only claimerd this is secondary to creating a meaningful match.

Fans don't care about the meritous deeds of Potvkin, they want to see an exciting fight. Your argument simply does not apply. It is a weak excuse to let a division be coopted by the self interest of the Klitschkos. Weak very weak. You want to point out the logical fallicy of that also?

You are wrong essentially because even though there is merit to fighting a mandatory it is not as much of a priority as fighting a match with meaningful consequences.

 

dsimon writes:

You miss the point again. This division is not the same as past divisions. It is much weaker and there are no meaningful match ups to be made. You simply need to accept that condition. In a word it is unprecedented.

Haye's ascent is also unprecedented as he is a puncher and presents a threat to Vlad on this account despite being a big cruiser. Haye's ascent does not necessarily benefit Haye.... He is unexperienced at this weight.... It does benefit the division because it is a good match up. It creates the potential for things to happen in the division because of Vlads past experience with punchers.

The division benefits from the fight. Haye is being a gamer. He sees that opportunity and is exploiting it. Haye probably would not try to move up so aggressively if he didn't percieve how weak the division is presently.

If you need justification then one can say Haye is a champion at his weight. As weak as this division is that should be enough.

Mitchell the danger is that you have a self centered guy trying to create a strangle hold on a weak division where he can fight guys like Ibrigamov til the cows come home. His brother has been given a pass to do likewise. If these guys don't take a match with a possible threat like Haye what kind of match ups can you see in the future of the division? Think about it.

I acknowledge your point about the past.... I have repeatedly acknowledged this point. You need to acknowledge my point about the present state of the division! :doh: :dunno:

 

dsimon writes:

Its worse than that Alabama..... Vlad does not care one bit about the division, or making an exciting match where he is challenged. His style shows that and his motivation to control the belts with his brother. His acquiescence to fight obviously weak mandatory challenges because he can get away with it further demonstrate this. And because of alphabet soup he will be able to further get away with it.

I mean I could even understand if Vlad fought Peter again. But he won't he will simply smile that arrogant smirk and say he has to fight the next mandatory.... Mitchell and likeminded people see nothing wrong with Vlad's schedule being Ibramov . Poytkin, and another scrub thereafter. When does he plan to fight somoene with a pulse again? If this guy has his way never.

 

Who says Haye can make a fight with Klitschko interesting?

Who says he's going to actually back up his talk in the ring?

He hasn't had to do it against a real heavyweight yet.

A lot of fighter's can talk about what they're going to do against Klitschko...it's different when they're hit in the face with a 80+ inch jab coming from a 6'6 man weighing 240+ pounds.

 

dsimon writes:

Give him a chance and lets see. Let the guy chase KLitschko down, call him on his bullshit and fight the man. The draw is that haye is a puncher. He probably won't beat Klitschko but it has the potential to be exciting. Vlad's other fights do not have the potential to be exciting. And while he can give these mandatories a chance intermittenly he can also fight a guy that might lead to some intrigue.