Does Cintron have...

Hmmmmm.....

Not to NITPICK, but here's a QUOTE from your Own Link...


Arum said Mayweather also asked for $20 million to fight De La Hoya, a fight Arum said he wasn't interested in participating in. "That's not in the cards," Arum said. "He wants $20 million for the De La Hoya fight? It's not there. Sometimes, my man, you gotta know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. We'll talk about things down the road."

Arum HIMSELF is Acknowledging the DeLa Fight, Saying Floyd ASKED him to MAKE the DeLa Fight...CLEARLY, it's On Floyd's Mind & Made PUBLIC, N this Very Article...

Here's ANOTHER Interesting Quote....

Arum said Mayweather preferred to await the outcome of the May 6 Oscar De La Hoya-Ricardo Mayorga fight instead of committing to Margarito because he would prefer to fight De La Hoya.

Another Quote...

Many in the sport believe a De La Hoya-Mayweather fight is the biggest fight on the horizon and the only one capable of generating 1 million-plus buys on pay-per-view.

Bottom Line, per YOUR Article, DeLa is CLEARLY a Factor N Floyd's Decision Making, According to Rafael & Arum HIMSELF...MOST of the Article is Mentioning a DeLa Fight, Is it Not???:dunno:

Arum Speaks as if the Fight is IMPOSSIBLE, Based on Floyd's Asking Price, so Floyd Buys Out his Contract & MAKES the Fight Himself...Arum Said 20 Mil WASN'T Happening, so Floyd fREED Himself from Arum & Got 15-20mil ANYWAYS...

& Prior to that, Got 8mil for a LOWER Risk Opponent w/More PRESTIGE("Linear" Title) N Baldomir...

To Hold Margarito AGAINST Floyd Seems UNFAIR...By that Rationale, U Can Criticize ANY Fighter for Not Facing Certain Guys...DeLa has Boxings BEST Current Resume by a MILE, yet he NEVER Fought Vernon Forrest, Jose Luis Lopez, Kostya Tszyu, Vince Phillips or Winky Wright:dunno: ...

Should we Hold THAT Against DeLa???...Like Floyd, he COULD have Made ANY of those Fights, if he Wanted to...

Yes, Floyd COULD have Fought Margarito, but his Eyes were on DeLa or More Importantly, the MONEY DeLa Generates...So Floyd BYPASSED Margarito, had a MONEY Fight w/Zab, a MONEY Fight w/Baldomir(SAME Money as Margarito, MORE Prestige), then CASHED OUT vs. DeLa....

As he PLANNED All Along...



REED

 

Actually, Shane said that in response to being offered a Mayweather match. He said, "Mayweather should fight Margarito."

Furthermore, I'd argue that a Mayweather-Margarito match does WAY better than a Mayweather-Baldomir match. You kidding me? LOL@ you saying more people knew Baldy when Maragrito headlined an ESPN PPV where Mosley was on the UNDERCARD.

Of course, few people outside of boxing knew Margarito but that rule applies to Baldomir as well. And certainly WAY more people wanted to see...you know what? Forget it, dude.

 

Exactly...

NOBODY Bitched about Manny Pac vs Erik Morales II, yet Morales was Coming Off a DECISIVE LOSS to Zahir Raheem...

Why???...Cause it was a "Money Fight" & Fans WANTED to See It...Floyd vs Zab Fell into that SAME Category, yet Peeps BITCH about Zab Coming Off of a Loss???


REED:dunno:

 

I don't know about you but I bitched pretty hard about that fight. And I know a lot of others who agree...like Zahir Raheem ::

Either way, it doesn't make it RIGHT.

 

NOW it would Do Better Business, but Not Necessarily Back THEN...

Baldomir was Coming Off of WINS Over Zab & Gatti...N Terms of NAME RECOGNITION, those R BIGGER "Names" than ANYTHING On Margarito's Resume...

Shane was on the UNDERCARD of that PPV Cause he was Fighting the then UNKNOWN David Estrada...Margarito was a PART of the Main Event, but that was SUPPOSED to B Kermit Cintron's "Coming Out" Party...CINTRON was the Attraction that ESPN was Selling that Night, NOT Margarito:nono: ...



REED

 

Cool. So Margarito wins (emphatically, I might add) and becomes THE MAN at welter. Mayweather moves up and takes on...Sharmba Mitchell. Then fights the loser of Judah-Baldomir. Then fights the winner of Gatti-Baldomir.

No excuses. He should've fought Margarito. I don't wanna hear about how it wouldn't have sold because that was the fight on everyone's lips back then. Sh*t, even Floyd himself had to keep changing his story as to why he wouldn't fight him. That's all I needed to hear, personally. And as for making money, Arum also offered majority portion of the PPV upside (a part that never gets mentioned) - which certainly would've been far more than whatever he got for Baldomir.

Maybe Floyd didn't fight him because of Arum - I'm more inclined to believe that than anything else. But the other reasons are just...excuses.

 

All REED has EVER Said is this...

Arum ONLY Offered 8 mil Cause he KNEW Floyd was @ the END of his Contract & had his Sights SET on DeLa...The TIMING of Arum's Offer has ALWAYS Seemed FISHY to REED...

Why Wasn't 8 Mil Being Offered IMMEDIATELY After the Cintron-Margarito Fight???:dunno: ...REED agrees w/YOUR Sentiments Regarding that Fight, but Apparently Arum DIDN'T Think as Highly of it, or Else he'd have Been Offering the 8 mil Back THEN...

REED Agrees that Floyd COULD have Faced Margarito, but REED Isn't So Sure that Floyd SHOULD have Faced Margarito...

If Margarito was STILL Near the Top of the Welter Division Today, REED could See your Point, but Margarito has PROVEN Himself to B NO BETTER than the Paul Williams', Carlos Quintana's & Daniel Santos' of the World...

U May as Well Say Floyd "Should" have Faced those Guys, as Well as Margarito...

Only Guy Floyd "Should" Face is Miguel Cotto...


REED

 

Ironically, Floyd may have to beat Margarito anyway - if he defeats Cotto this fall (provided they get past their spring match-ups).

But as I said in a previous thread, if Cotto beats Gomez and Margarito back to back, we are looking at Trinidad-Jones in their prime times TEN taking place in 2009. Mayweather-Cotto...:cheer:

It'll happen.

 

He wasn't at the end of his contract.

Mayweather re-signed a two year deal with Arum late in 2005. That's the contract he bought out for 3/4 of a million dollars.

Margarito already had the fight with Gomez lined up when Judah came up short against Baldomir, but Arum publicly stated after that fight that he had reserved the Thomas & Mack reserved for late July for a potential Maywather-Margarito fight. The date was later changed to August.

Mayweather then decided to pay money to leave Top Rank with a Margarito fight on the table.

 

WHY did Mayweather Do this:dunno: ...

WHO was @ the Forefront of Floyd's MIND & Decision Making???...Margarito or DeLa???:dunno: ...

Regardless WHERE Mayweather was Contractually, he KNEW Bob Arum COULDN'T or WOULDN'T Put Together a DeLa-Mayweather Fight...Donny's Link even QUOTES Arum SAYING as Much...

Is their Something to This that REED is MISSING???:dunno: ...

REED

 

agREED....

It's 1 of THE Most "Inevitable" Fights N the HISTORY of Boxing...


REED

 

I'm not sure why, but I kind of get the feeling that Floyd - Cotto WON'T happen.

Just a gut feeling, at least not in the foreseeable future. Maybe if Floyd retires, then comes back age 36, and Cotto is still a top dog.

 

What you're missing is your mistatement of facts.

Mayweather wasn't "@ the END of his Contract" and that's not why "Arum ONLY Offered 8 mil". In fact, he'd already re-signed with Top Rank months before, for two years, and Arum tried to make the fight before the buy out was announced. Arum made it publicly known before Mayweather-Judah he was trying to make that fight.

Mayweather may have had his mind on DLH, but that fight was in no way signed or even close it.

The buy out came before DLH had even fought Mayorga. Some weeks later, DLH had the conference call announcing he was going to take the rest of the year off, and would likely return next May. That's when he said Mayweather was the only name he was interested in.

Mayweather, at the time of the buy out, was only one of few fighters DLH was speculated to be interested in fighting. Trinidad was another. So was Wright.

Instead of waiting until any official DLH announcement, he had already decided he didn't want to stay with Arum or even entertain the possibility of a Margarito fight.

 

Perhaps REED is EXPLAINING his "Point" POORLY, but even MISwording DOESN'T Change the GIST of what REED is Saying...

Whether Floyd was TECHICALLY "@ the End" of his Contract or NOT, he Made HIS Intentions (2 Face DeLa) KNOWN to Arum, then Exercised an OUT Clause N his Contract & Pursued that...

U Guys make it Seem like Floyd Exercised that Option to PURPOSELY AVOID Margarito...As if Arum Told Floyd, "Fight Margarito or Else"...REED is Saying that Floyd CLEARLY KNEW of the Likelihood of a DeLa Fight Just PRIOR to Getting OUT of his Contract...


REED

 

I never said he purposely avoided or ducked Margarito.

Arum was his (and Margarito's) promoter at the time and he actively sought to make the fight. Arum made an offer of $8 million for the fight in 2006. Just for comparison, Mayweather made around $5 million for the Judah fight.

Mayweather, perhaps to free himself just for the possibility of a DLH fight (to let DLH know his intentions and more easily negotiate the fight), paid $750,000 to walk away from Top Rank and leave an $8 million fight on the table.

 

REED has Never Stated Otherwise...

What REED is Saying is, Arum ALREADY KNEW Floyd was More than Likely ON THE VERGE of Leaving Top Rank, PRIOR to the Offer of 8 mil...

Why Else would Arum PROMOTE & BADMOUTH the Floyd-Zab Fight SIMULTANEOUSLY???:dunno: ...Again, the TIMING is Fishy...

REED Agrees 100% w/just about Everything Else U've Stated N this Post...


REED

 

I see what you're saying...and we're "arguing" over semantics and speculation, honestly - to an extent. PBF ultimately did well for himself in 06 & 07.

BUT.....in that article, Mayweather also asked for guarantees to fight other fighters - Hatton, Cotto - that Arum wasn't willing to pay either, bro.

Matter of fact at the time, Mayweather also mentioned Trinidad, Wright, Hatton....etc.

Mayweather also wasn't "about" to leave TR...he had just signed a contract in late 2005. That's why he had to buy out the contract for $750,000. There was a limited buy-out window that expired in the first 6 months, I believe.

"We're not sitting waiting on De La Hoya," Ellerbe said. "He's in a tough, tough fight with Mayorga....The reason Mayweather opted for the buyout rather than waiting for the May 6 result was because the contract had a limited window for the buyout, one that expired before the De La Hoya fight. However, Arum said he would have extended the window if Mayweather had asked. What Arum wouldn't do, he said, was raise the guarantees for other fights outlined in the contract."

So, the fact remains: Mayweather elected to not fight Margarito for $8 Million; and instead ended up fighting Baldomir for the same amount in November.

Again, almost assuredly due to Baldomir being a more attractive risk/reward ratio given he had the "linear" title and was/is easier to beat - than Margarito.

If that weren't true - then he would have fought Margarito since he was just as "easy" as Baldomir, for the same amount of money, getting more viewership from Mexican fans....and would have netted the WBO belt in the process. Don't tell me Mayweather cares about "linear" titles. LOL.

It's business...and that was his choice. At THAT time, it was not due to a DLH fight being on the table or negotiated or even being realistic....since Arum wasn't going to pay it and DLH was indicating he wouldn't fight Mayweather.

The DLH option simply wasn't on the table then, period...beyond Mayweather wanting $20 million for it from Arum.

That's all I'm saying.

Did it 'work out' for him LATER in 2007? Sure. He got $25 Million vs. DLH.

But there is a reason he elected not to fight Margarito in '06....risk/reward was not attractive. Too much risk for "too little" money.

Baldomir was more attractive in that regard.

I don't "hold it" against Mayweather. It is what it is.

Peace.

 

Baldomir STILL has a better resume than Margarito. He's also fought PBF and Vernon Forrest.

Baldomir has beaten Gatti and Zab and Margarito has beaten Cintron:dunno: and Clottey:dunno: and lost to Williams and Daniel Santos

 

Yes - and he lost to them both by BEATING.

If we go that route, then Marion Wilson has a better resume than any heavyweight active today. :: :dunno:

And let's not discount Cintron and Clottey AT 147, which is the subject here.

I picked Baldomir to knock Gatti out at 147 - because Gatti was faded and even more so at 147 (he is no welterweight).

Knocking Cintron and Clottey while lifting up Gatti at 147 is misguided.

Cintron has the IBF belt and has beaten Suarez, Estrada, Matthysse, and some other tough guys like Reid, Ortiz, and so on.

Clottey is most definitely a top-10 welterweight.

I thought Margarito drew with Williams - and I think he takes him in the rematch.

There are other opponents on Margarito's resume that give him more depth at WWT.

The loss to Santos was at 154 - and just saying he "lost" doesn't quite tell the whole story, does it?

Judah? Certainly legit and a great win for Baldy at 147.

Peace.

 

Beating Cintron doesn't make you the man at 147. If he beat Spinks he would have been the man at 147.

You can say that Margarito would be a good opponent but don't call him the man at 147 for beating Kermit Cintron.

 

I gave Margarito credit for beating Clottey, but Baldomir has also beaten Clottey.

 

By DQ in a fight he was losing on points.

 

He broke Clottey down mentally and made him take the easy way out.::

 

That why most fighters get behind on points.

 

Donny...I love you, man.

 

Whatever dude. Check out Margarito's resume at welter. It's excellent. You don't stay champ for as long as he did without beating some tough, tough opponents.

The reason why you don't see names like Spinks is because of men like Don King, who'd rather pass belts around his stable rather than give Margarito a shot. He wasn't stupid, and neither were his fighters.

HBO pushed HARD for Margarito-Mayorga when both were welter champs but Don King completely ignored that and put on Mayorga-Spinks. And then Spinks and another King fighter, Judah. And so forth and so forth. But any welter who was dumb enough to fight the division's longest reigning champ got their ass kicked.

But at some point, you can't keep fighting young, hungry contenders and not expect it to catch up to you. That's what happened with Williams. So, after five years as titleholder and an undefeated streak at welter that dates back over a decade (when he was EIGHTEEN), wayward fans can say sh*t like, "See? He never was that good and never deserved a big money fight."

 

IMDAZED, why did Marge never fight Mosley, or Oscar, or Forrest, or Quartey, or well just about anyone?

You can't just blame the other fighters, it's him too.

You don't think it's a little bit odd that out of pretty much any weight class in recent years, he is pretty much the only long reigning champ who never fought any big names and big fights?

Even Calzaghe's resume is better than Marge's.

When your best win is Cintron, your resume is hardly "stellar".

Point being, if Marge REALLY wanted those fights and pushed for them, he would have got them.

The truth is, people weren't really interested in fighting hm (fairly high risk, low reward) and he wasn't really interested in fighting them either (he was content to rest on his laurels as the most underrated, ducked fighter in the history of boxing, since the dawn of time).

 

LOL. Methinks you need to go back and check your timelines.

Margarito became welterweight champ in 2002 - around the time Shane Mosley was getting his ass kicked by Vernon Forrest. Oscar? 154. Mosley? Licking his wounds and prepping for a too-soon rematch. Quartey? Ghana. Forrest? See Mosley.

But it wasn't until Margarito upset Six Heads Lewis (via Brutal KO) on HBO, that Margarito became a name. Or at least someone who HBO felt was a viable opponent for newly crowned king Ricardo Mayorga. Don King said "FUKK THAT" and took his fighter elsewhere, namely, that throwback PPV where Hopkins tortured Joppy. And Mayorga lost his title to Spinks. Who gave it away to Judah.

So while King was passing the title back and forth, Margarito beat on the likes of (including Six Heads), the overhyped Kyvelos on HBO (via another brutal 2nd round TKO), Cintron and the underrated Danny Perez.

The idea that Margarito didnt want those fights is just...hilarious.

 

I love him too.

 

w/All DUE Respect, Brother DAZED, U're Starting to Sound like a Margarita APOLOGIST, Dog...

The "Underrated" Danny Perez??:: ...Six Heads???...Nevermind that Mayorga WAXED Six Heads 1st, Right???...Or that Six Heads had 1 of THE WORST Chins of his Era...

The FACT is, Guys Put THEMSELVES N a Position for those "Big" Fights...Quintana, Collazo, Floyd, Shane, Cotto, Zab, Williams...ALL of these Guys have Found THEMSELVES N Fairly "Big" Fights @ Welter...Collazo's Been N TWO of them...Margarita NEVER Managed to Do what even Collazo has Done N that Regard...& WHEN He had the Opportunity to Face Cotto, Margarita Elected to Face Paul Williams 1st...

DUMB Decisions & a LACK of Persistence is MORE to Blame than Peeps Supposedly "Ducking" Margarito...

& YES, the Loss to Williams is TELLING...Cause Margarito had a Bout w/Cotto Staring him N his Grill, til he Fucked it Up...Now he's BACK N that Same Position Again...


REED