<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> this is baseless sly. infinity doesn't necessitate homogeneity. the sequence of numbers is infinitely long, yet it changes - from 1 to 2 to 3 to 4... each member of the sequence is different. [/b][/quote] That is not true. The sequence of numbers itself...IS CONSTANT. It is ALWAYS in the same sequence. You can count over and over again and it is the same order. Mathematics is a constant. The universe is variable. The Sly One has Spoken!!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> God is able to deliver, but he has his own time frame and it is not always in line with ours. [/b][/quote] So God can deliver or answer our prayers BUT in his own time frame? Shame his time frame did not concide with those millions' who called his name but he chose to turn his face away because his time frame did not match theirs I will have to enquire what his time frame is before I worship him, I wouldn't want to waste my time.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> this is baseless sly. infinity doesn't necessitate homogeneity. the sequence of numbers is infinitely long, yet it changes - from 1 to 2 to 3 to 4... each member of the sequence is different. [/b][/quote] That is not true. The sequence of numbers itself...IS CONSTANT. It is ALWAYS in the same sequence. You can count over and over again and it is the same order. Mathematics is a constant. The universe is variable. The Sly One has Spoken!! [/b][/quote] that's messy and deliberately vague nonsense sly. "mathematics is a constant" - what does that mean? your arguments shift around, you muddle things together. you said: (1) If a sequence is infinite, each member of the sequence must be the same. (2) In the temporal sequence of events in our universe, it is not true that each member is the same. (3) So the universe cannot be infinitely old. I rejected (1), with the counter-example: (4) The sequence of natural numbers is infinite, yet it is not true that each member in the sequence is the same. and because (1) is rejected, you can't reason to (3). the response you've made is irrelevant: (5) Each recital of the sequence of natural numbers is the same. this is irrelevant to what's at stake - the variability/unvariability of each member in the sequence of numbers. is 48 the same as 49? no - 48 is an even number and 49 is odd; 49 is a square number and 48 isnt;... just because when you count and when i count we say the same things establishes nothing relevant. come on sly, admit it - your argument was hopelessly tenuous and desperate!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Similarly, the fact that God is the creator of the whole known universe, and is the possessor of such as scientific mind as to be able to design from a one cell organism to a whale, a chimp or a human, that in itself makes Him a pretty powerful individual. And the fact that He is unable to create a rock that He himsef can not lift has nothing to do with anything. It's simply a childish proposition. [/b][/quote] Translation: God got OWNED by a childish proposition! . [/b][/quote] Nope. You did. But hey, let's look a it in a positive light: you found that you couldn't respond. It's a good day. You've learned something about yourself, m' boy. Something that we all already knew but apparently, you didn't. Ain't it a little embarrassing, though? I mean, being owned by a Bible thumping fella like Sly... I'd be hiding in the bushes if it were me. And I wouldn't care if the bushes were burning, really...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Where was god when: Millions of slaves for 300 years called his name for deliverance to no avail? Imagine the generations of religious black slaves who were born, breed and died in slavery. I would love to know how they feel about their God. Millions of innocent Jews were deliberately and overtly murdered in cold blood muttering his name with their last breaths? I would love to know what the dead Jews think of God. Millions of natives American were wiped out not too long ago by the righteous, moralist founding fathers? I wonder what the dead natives think of the God of the founding fathers. When 7000 Muslims were wiped out in 24 hours during the Balkans war? I would love to know what the dead Muslims think of Allah. What did God do when all these atrocities were being planned and executed? Maybe he didn’t know? Maybe he laughed and gave his thumbs up? Maybe he smiled and turned the other cheek? Maybe he was powerless to help those calling his name? Maybe he didn’t even hear! Maybe he couldn’t care less. Maybe he was omnipotent; maybe wasn’t? What do u think would happen if the millions referred to above and many more who lived every day of their lives under the worst forms of cruelty and injustice imaginable to the mind, only to be murdered in cold blood as a coup de grace woke up today, assemble in a hall and God walked in? What would happen to God? [/b][/quote] Rock... I'm sorry, but I don't understand your logic. So if I kill your mom tomorrow you get angry at God and not at me? You would make God responsible for MY actions? I am trying to understand what you are saying... God is not responsible for anyone's slavery. Men are. Go and get angry at them, not at God...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> that's messy and deliberately vague nonsense sly. "mathematics is a constant" - what does that mean? your arguments shift around, you muddle things together. you said: (1) If a sequence is infinite, each member of the sequence must be the same. (2) In the temporal sequence of events in our universe, it is not true that each member is the same. (3) So the universe cannot be infinitely old. I rejected (1), with the counter-example: (4) The sequence of natural numbers is infinite, yet it is not true that each member in the sequence is the same. and because (1) is rejected, you can't reason to (3). the response you've made is irrelevant: (5) Each recital of the sequence of natural numbers is the same. this is irrelevant to what's at stake - the variability/unvariability of each member in the sequence of numbers. is 48 the same as 49? no - 48 is an even number and 49 is odd; 49 is a square number and 48 isnt;... just because when you count and when i count we say the same things establishes nothing relevant. come on sly, admit it - your argument was hopelessly tenuous and desperate! [/b][/quote] Nope. Rooster, each number in the sequence is CONSTANT. Every number that will ever exist is ALREADY there and always was. We are the ones that are picking and choosing numbers for whatever purposes we wish to...but the numbers and the sequences thereof are CONSTANT. Mathematics is SET, it may have DIFFERENT COMPONENTS....BUT the COMPONENTS ARE SET IN PLACE already. The difference is that the universe is NOT SET. It is still changing, it was always changing. It's compents CAME INTO BEING and some have GONE OUT OF EXISTENCE. It is EXPANDING. Time is affecting it. Time has NO EFFECTon the CONSTANT of Mathematics and it's components. Rooser...NUMBERS will ALWAYS be the same. They will NEVER change. Think about what I am saying. I shouldn't have to expand anymore than that. The Sly One has Spoken!!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Rock... I'm sorry, but I don't understand your logic. So if I kill your mom tomorrow you get angry at God and not at me? You would make God responsible for MY actions? I am trying to understand what you are saying... God is not responsible for anyone's slavery. Men are. Go and get angry at them, not at God... [/b][/quote] Joe My premise is this: why did God refuse to answers the prayers of his children, the believers in their hour of need? Do you know how many beliversa died during slavery, during world war 2? If u worship God, isn't he supposed to protect u against evil? Or is this a con the bible has dished out to believers?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> if i was saying that there was a start to the universe, and that the time between (A) the universe's start and (B) the present moment is infinitely long, then there'd be a problem. but i'm not saying that. [/b][/quote] The universe cannot be infinite. If it were infinite it wouldn't be changing. If it were infinite it wouldn't be expanding. If it were infinite, time wouldn't be affecting it. If it were infinite it would be a constant, unchanging entity. The Sly One has Spoken!! [/b][/quote] this is baseless sly. infinity doesn't necessitate homogeneity. the sequence of numbers is infinitely long, yet it changes - from 1 to 2 to 3 to 4... each member of the sequence is different. [/b][/quote] yes but there is no sequence of numbers that is equal to infinity. your sequence of numbers can approach infinity (if you keep counting forever like you said) but it will still be forever changing & growing and there will NEVER be a point where it's value is infinite. infinite implies constant and unchanging like sly says. infinity is a static state if it could grow, change or reduce in size it wouldn't be infinite. What's infinity minus one? Infinity plus one?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Rock... I'm sorry, but I don't understand your logic. So if I kill your mom tomorrow you get angry at God and not at me? You would make God responsible for MY actions? I am trying to understand what you are saying... God is not responsible for anyone's slavery. Men are. Go and get angry at them, not at God... [/b][/quote] Joe My premise is this: why did God refuse to answers the prayers of his children, the believers in their hour of need? Do you know how many beliversa died during slavery, during world war 2? If u worship God, isn't he supposed to protect u against evil? Or is this a con the bible has dished out to believers? [/b][/quote] OK. Since I am not a Bible scholar, perhaps I would not be able to answer this question very convincingly; I would probably have to leave it out to Sly to tackle this one. This is my own, personal view. Take it with a grain of salt. 1) God gave human beings free will. 2) Humans can and will use this free will as they see fit. Sometimes for good, sometimes for bad. 3) As a result of that, humans are responsible for the evil that happens to other fellow humans, not God. 4) If God were to interfere, free will would not be free will anymore because then we would all be like cows, waiting for God to come and feed us, save us, wipe our ass. 5) Since humans sometimes use their free will to HELP others, not just to enslave them, I would suggest you do not forget this side of the equation, either. 6) Therefore, if the bad things that happen to humans proves the inexistence of God... using that same line of reasoning, doesn't it follow that the good things that happen to humans also prove his existence? 7) We are back were we started.
Good try Joe, good try. If god gave us free will, why are we going threatened with hell fire when we use our free will not to recognise, worship or believe in him? If god cannot interfere in our lives because we have free will already, then waht is the benefit of worshipping him? He doesn't or won't interfere anyway, what is god's value. He won't help but wants me to bow down and worship? What an egoistic, megaloniac!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Good try Joe, good try. If god gave us free will, why are we going threatened with hell fire when we use our free will not to recognise, worship or believe in him? If god cannot interfere in our lives because we have free will already, then waht is the benefit of worshipping him? He doesn't or won't interfere anyway, what is god's value. He won't help but wants me to bow down and worship? What an egoistic, megaloniac! [/b][/quote] I'm kind of not sure if I understand this. Basically God says worship me live your life according to my laws but you have the freedom to chose not to worship me but don't forget their are consequences to your actions. So you are free to choose God and Heaven or not. Why is that a problem? Cupey
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Good try Joe, good try. If god gave us free will, why are we going threatened with hell fire when we use our free will not to recognise, worship or believe in him? If god cannot interfere in our lives because we have free will already, then waht is the benefit of worshipping him? He doesn't or won't interfere anyway, what is god's value. He won't help but wants me to bow down and worship? What an egoistic, megaloniac! [/b][/quote] I'm kind of not sure if I understand this. Basically God says worship me live your life according to my laws but you have the freedom to chose not to worship me but don't forget their are consequences to your actions. So you are free to choose God and Heaven or not. Why is that a problem? Cupey [/b][/quote] God gave a free will. I decide not to worship him. Why is he going to punish me with hell? Do u know it is possible to obey the so-called commnadmnets and still not worship god? Do u deserve hell?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> God gave a free will. I decide not to worship him. Why is he going to punish me with hell? Do u know it is possible to obey the so-called commnadmnets and still not worship god? Do u deserve hell? [/b][/quote] #1 Worshipping God is also obeying his commandments. The two are not mutually exclusive. God is the lawmaker and the lawgiver. He has given us free will, in the sense that we are not robots and machines, but we are required to willingly choose him....if we are to be counted as one of his. Let's forget God for a minute...men have a free will under the law...but if we break the law, we shall be punished. If you try to rob a bank and are caught you'll be sent to jail. Now you may need to rob the bank because you just lost your job and have no money to feed your wife and kids....doesn't matter according to the law. Laws are in place to be followed. Your will is free...but you must still obey the law. It's the same with God. I don't see the sense in your argument. The Sly One has Spoken!!
Good try Joe, good try. If god gave us free will, why are we going threatened with hell fire when we use our free will not to recognise, worship or believe in him? The same way we have the freedom to swim at the beach but with that freedom comes the possibility of drowning. Also, there is a sense of justice in this, because wouldn't you want evil people to be punished, if not here, at least in the afterlife? If god cannot interfere in our lives because we have free will already, then waht is the benefit of worshipping him? The "benefits" could be qualified in psychological terms more than anything else. When you worship a God, you may feel closer to the source of the answer to many of life's mysteries. If it doesn't do it for you, it's fine by me but I don't have a problem with other people experiencing something I can't possibly feel myself. You and I are witnesses to a party from the outside looking in. He doesn't or won't interfere anyway, what is god's value. What is God' value... This is my take on this matter: The presence of God in people's head is a powerful one but it has to be tied in with a code of ethics and a moral "pact" that men must abide by. God must serve as a powerful reminder and guide whose psychological presence is of a permanent nature in our lives. For ethical behaviour to take place in society, man can not follow his heart alone because his heart is usually not a good compass for truth, and if you can't find truth, it's is harder to find peace and to know what's right or what's wrong. A man who decides to cheat on his wife is following his heart. The heart is a very shaky ground to decide on issues of morality. A man who commits pedophilia is following his heart, his desires, his emotions. Again, when you ask what's God's value, you must try to answer what the consequences would be if God were not there in the first place. Man can't rely on his conscience alone either, because that's almost the same thing as following his heart. Your conscience alone is not reliable because very frequently we choose wrong. Also, there is ample proof that some people seem to have none, anyway. And when they do, they do a lot of evil. Even Hitler follwed his conscience. Of course it is possible that some people follow a right path just by consulting his conscience alone and not God's opinion. In this case, we could talk about a "good conscience." But what we call a good conscience has to be shaped somehow, it just doesn't happen without outside intervention. Humans' morality has to be shaped and molded and for that, the presence of a God is an invaluable tool. If you are to teach a child why mistreating a little animal is wrong, there is a point where it may be useful to say that God doesn't approve of it, not just that daddy doesn't approve of it, because daddy is a simple mortal and he may well be wrong. God, being infallible, produces a longer lasting impact on the child than simply daddy declaring that kicking the daylights out of a doggy is wrong. The idea of a benevolent, all knowing God is important for human kind in order to shape behaviour. Why? Because if I were to cheat and I knew I would not be found out, given human nature, very probably I would be far more prone to do it than if I knew that there is "SOMEONE" watching over us, judging our every move. And especially if I were a child. If my daddy, or the teacher, or my friend didn't catch me, God would still know. I can't fool him. It is useful to know that there is SOMEONE you can not cheat or lie to because He knows your heart. If we were to rely on our conscience alone, that would not be enough and we would all be in trouble because given human nature, we would be far more prone to not give a shit. The idea of God, then, for pragmatic purposes if nothing else, is a very important one in order to direct and monitor human behaviour. You say that God "doesn't really help," but I beg to differ. Even if God does not exist, even if the idea of God is nothing but a fantasy, the fact that many people believe in the transcendental allows us for answers that otherwise we would not have. So God "helps" in that way. And not only that, the idea of God has given comfort and guidance to many, many people throughout the ages far more than the idea that there is nothing out there, everything is just chance, and the corpse of a human child is not really more valuable than the corpse of a horse since there isn't much difference between a horse and a human. If I were to think that way Rock On, I would have no problem with throwing your body by the side of the road and let it to rot once you are dead since there is nothing sacred, nothing transcendental about you or your life. You are just an animal. I would probably have no problem beating the shit out of you, either, I mean... Denying the existence of God, then, has consequences just like accepting it has consequences. It's up to us to decide which consequences we would rather live with and in this respect my choice has already been made. He won't help but wants me to bow down and worship? I don't know about that. Again, you may have to ask Sly regarding the "bow down and worship" thingy. I am not a religious guy. I like to see myself as a practical man of reason and if the idea of an existing God makes more sense than a non existing one, then I will always go for the more reasonable option. What an egoistic, megaloniac! If you think so...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> SEVEN PAGES later and sly STILL hasnt addressed the link i posted coward [/b][/quote] And Neither will I, and you calling me a coward doesn't exactly inspire to do it either. I've addressed this issue before, dating techniques are inconsistent, to say the least. It's down to a matter of opinion. In any event, YOU are in no position to ask me to address ANYTHING. Have you addressed my initial argument regarding why GOD (or a creator) HAS to exist? Have YOU addressed the point about the holes and assumpions in Evolutionary theory? Have YOU addressed the point that LIFE couldn't have started by itself and the reasons why? Have YOU address the point that 4 billions years WOULDN'T have even been long enough to support the formation of life and the evolutionary process? Until YOU address all of the above, which came BEFORE your "link" ( :YeahRight: ), YOU are the coward. So run along monkey. The Sly One has Spoken!! [/b][/quote] way to TUCK TAIL and run you say the methods are fallible yet offer NO PROOF that they are fact is you read the article, knew the guy fucked you till you loved him and decided to be a coward and totally skirt the issue, and the worst part is you cant bash him as an atheist because he ISNT ONE of course im in a position to ask you to address issues, you make basless statements and when i call you on them you run, simple really everything you say is based on assumption and belief, no hard facts at all and apparently you dont realize how long 4 BILLION years is, id say thats def long enough for evolutionary process your points: god HAS to exist?? says who? sures theres holes in evolutionary theory, thats why its a THEORY, but there are far less holes and assumptions than creationism life started due to mixing of certain energies that caused super complicated processes to occur SEE ABOVE for the 4 billion year issue your serve
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> way to TUCK TAIL and run you say the methods are fallible yet offer NO PROOF that they are fact is you read the article, knew the guy fucked you till you loved him and decided to be a coward and totally skirt the issue, and the worst part is you cant bash him as an atheist because he ISNT ONE of course im in a position to ask you to address issues, you make basless statements and when i call you on them you run, simple really everything you say is based on assumption and belief, no hard facts at all and apparently you dont realize how long 4 BILLION years is, id say thats def long enough for evolutionary process your points: god HAS to exist?? says who? sures theres holes in evolutionary theory, thats why its a THEORY, but there are far less holes and assumptions than creationism life started due to mixing of certain energies that caused super complicated processes to occur SEE ABOVE for the 4 billion year issue your serve [/b][/quote] 4 billion years is NOT long enough for the random formation of life and then the evolutionary process (not to mention the little matter of the earth cooling and the atmosphere forming initially to allow life in the first place). I don't think you realize how long it would take to get from a single celled life form to the miilions of intricate species that we have today. I don't think you realize how long it would take (nevermind the fact that it is IMPOSSIBLE) for inorganic minerals to eventually form a life form that is capable of eating, breathing and procreating. Adogg...God and creation makes FAR MORE SENSE. Not even close. The Sly One has Spoken!!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> way to TUCK TAIL and run you say the methods are fallible yet offer NO PROOF that they are fact is you read the article, knew the guy fucked you till you loved him and decided to be a coward and totally skirt the issue, and the worst part is you cant bash him as an atheist because he ISNT ONE of course im in a position to ask you to address issues, you make basless statements and when i call you on them you run, simple really everything you say is based on assumption and belief, no hard facts at all and apparently you dont realize how long 4 BILLION years is, id say thats def long enough for evolutionary process your points: god HAS to exist?? says who? sures theres holes in evolutionary theory, thats why its a THEORY, but there are far less holes and assumptions than creationism life started due to mixing of certain energies that caused super complicated processes to occur SEE ABOVE for the 4 billion year issue your serve [/b][/quote] 4 billion years is NOT long enough for the random formation of life and then the evolutionary process (not to mention the little matter of the earth cooling and the atmosphere forming initially to allow life in the first place). I don't think you realize how long it would take to get from a single celled life form to the miilions of intricate species that we have today. I don't think you realize how long it would take (nevermind the fact that it is IMPOSSIBLE) for inorganic minerals to eventually form a life form that is capable of eating, breathing and procreating. Adogg...God and creation makes FAR MORE SENSE. Not even close. The Sly One has Spoken!! [/b][/quote] PROVE that it's not long enough.
We seem to be going back to square-one an awful lot here. Can't we call a bloody truce on this, or something? Remind me to start reading up on evolutionary theory - the contradictions between the theories being thrown around will have some refutation somewhere down the track. At any rate - we fallible humans still have a LONG way to go in this truth-finding mission. I'd like to think we still have a lot of evolution to go through ourselves.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> We seem to be going back to square-one an awful lot here. Can't we call a bloody truce on this, or something? Remind me to start reading up on evolutionary theory - the contradictions between the theories being thrown around will have some refutation somewhere down the track. At any rate - we fallible humans still have a LONG way to go in this truth-finding mission. I'd like to think we still have a lot of evolution to go through ourselves. [/b][/quote] this is getting ridiculous. Time to call a hault to the bout. Cupey
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> We seem to be going back to square-one an awful lot here. Can't we call a bloody truce on this, or something? Remind me to start reading up on evolutionary theory - the contradictions between the theories being thrown around will have some refutation somewhere down the track. At any rate - we fallible humans still have a LONG way to go in this truth-finding mission. I'd like to think we still have a lot of evolution to go through ourselves. [/b][/quote] Psychological evolution perhaps but TRUST me, the human race isn't evolving into anything else. We are humans today, we were humans from the begining and we'll be humans up till the end. The Sly One has Spoken!!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Damn, 20 pages. I can't seem to find the last page I posted in. What have I missed? [/b][/quote] The long AND short version: "You're an assclown" "No I'm not, YOU are." "Yes you are" "No I'm not; you're a big fart-sniffer" "Am not - you are" "Are so - no I'm not" Repeat about 5,000 times. -M
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> 4 billion years is NOT long enough for the random formation of life and then the evolutionary process (not to mention the little matter of the earth cooling and the atmosphere forming initially to allow life in the first place). . [/b][/quote] Says who........you? Try reading some books by guys like Carl Sagan, Richard Dawkins etc, then get back to us. In fact, read just one, "Shadows of Forgotton Ancestors" by Carl Sagan, then get back to us.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> The long AND short version: "You're an assclown" "No I'm not, YOU are." "Yes you are" "No I'm not; you're a big fart-sniffer" "Am not - you are" "Are so - no I'm not" Repeat about 5,000 times. -M [/b][/quote] Girl, You have a beautiful smile. Are you that pretty in real life? I'm not meaning to flirt but your avatar is quite eye catching and an Englishman cannot help but compliment a lady. :cheek: Anyway...I think it's been a rather intellectual discussion for the most part, the name calling has been at a minimum. I'm quite offended actually that you should think that it has consisted mainly of name calling. :huh: The Sly One has Spoken!!
Sly...loosen up already! I was joking, man. You know...humor. Made a funny - whatever you wish to call it. Don't be the poster-child for that old saying, about Religious folks having no sense of humor, 'k? Ya poopy bicycle-seat sniffer, you. -M
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Sly...loosen up already! I was joking, man. You know...humor. Made a funny - whatever you wish to call it. Don't be the poster-child for that old saying, about Religious folks having no sense of humor, 'k? Ya poopy bicycle-seat sniffer, you. -M [/b][/quote] Waterhead
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Says who........you? Try reading some books by guys like Carl Sagan, Richard Dawkins etc, then get back to us. In fact, read just one, "Shadows of Forgotton Ancestors" by Carl Sagan, then get back to us. [/b][/quote] I haven't read any of those books but I can tell you this without reading them: NONE of them can explain how life started. NOT even one! Living organisms cannot come from dead matter. Also....scientists wouldn't admit that their theory is wrong until they have no choice...but I can use my intellect and see for myself...I suggest you do the same. The following is why my simple intuition suggests to me that it would be MUCH longer than 4 Billion years, IF evolution were a reality. In the 6000 years of recorded human history, humans have been....well...humans. Therefore we can conclude from this that it takes AT LEAST 6000 years for a species to change even a little bit. So....how many changes would it require to link Humans to an Ape....or a "common ancestor" as is the ever changing belief. I would say, based on DNA complexity, oh...about AT LEAST 1 thousand mini changes (being VERY GENEROUS...for the sake of giving your argument a chance...it'll be more like 1 million)!! Therefore...to get humans from apes, using the above logic it would require approximately..... 6000 * 1000 years..... 6 million years. That's 6 million years for ONE major shift from closest KNOWN species to another. Now let's multiply that number by the amount of species inbetween humans and single celled amoeba, across class and kingdom lines, TENS of THOUSANDS...(again VERY GENEROUS)...and you already have a number that exceeds 60 BILLION years. Naturally these numbers are all out of my head, and are not to be taken as scientific fact, but you can at least follow my logic...with just basic examples and estimates. Add in your own numbers based on what we know about DNA, human history and amount of species etc...and see what you come up with. I haven't even begun to discuss how long it would take for life itself, after eons of "trial and error" to form from inorganic matter. Add this number to the above. 4 Billion years!! Please. :YeahRight: The Sly One has Spoken!!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Sly...loosen up already! I was joking, man. You know...humor. Made a funny - whatever you wish to call it. Don't be the poster-child for that old saying, about Religious folks having no sense of humor, 'k? Ya poopy bicycle-seat sniffer, you. -M [/b][/quote] Waterhead [/b][/quote] Puling Fucktard
