<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> back by popular demand Cupey [/b][/quote] :cheek: Thanks, man. I wuz just playin'. -M
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> back by popular demand Cupey [/b][/quote] :cheek: Thanks, man. I wuz just playin'. -M [/b][/quote] I just thought the topic was going astray. But thanks for the kiss :fly: Cupey
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> I haven't read any of those books but I can tell you this without reading them: NONE of them can explain how life started. NOT even one! [/b][/quote] Nor can the bible, it's just a theory at the end of the day, like all the rest Remember too Sly, that there are two forms of life we know about here on earth, who's to say "God" isn't plant-like??? I think it's foolish to act as if you've got it all nailed when in reality we know next to nothing about the universe. Who's to say when certain exotic, intergalactic elements combine they produce life? These elements could have been carried to earth on a comet or asteroid or something and just happened to be lucky enough to land on a planet where the conditions were good enough for life to develop. What if the universe is actually just some other beings bloodstream or something? You know, like in Men In Black or whatever. Also, what are your feelings on reincarnation as opposed to everlasting life? If there is a heaven, or hell, whatever, and taking into account alien life too (which the law of averages suggests there is), as well as animal life, the numbers will keep on rising and rising and rising, after all, everyone and everything will die, heaven (or hell) will become overcrowded. Wouldn't it make more sense to "recycle"??
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> I haven't read any of those books but I can tell you this without reading them: NONE of them can explain how life started. NOT even one! [/b][/quote] Nor can the bible, it's just a theory at the end of the day, like all the rest Remember too Sly, that there are two forms of life we know about here on earth, who's to say "God" isn't plant-like??? I think it's foolish to act as if you've got it all nailed when in reality we know next to nothing about the universe. Who's to say when certain exotic, intergalactic elements combine they produce life? These elements could have been carried to earth on a comet or asteroid or something and just happened to be lucky enough to land on a planet where the conditions were good enough for life to develop. What if the universe is actually just some other beings bloodstream or something? You know, like in Men In Black or whatever. Also, what are your feelings on reincarnation as opposed to everlasting life? If there is a heaven, or hell, whatever, and taking into account alien life too (which the law of averages suggests there is), as well as animal life, the numbers will keep on rising and rising and rising, after all, everyone and everything will die, heaven (or hell) will become overcrowded. Wouldn't it make more sense to "recycle"?? [/b][/quote] Hi God, you look a little leafy today. You might need a trim The bible says man was created in the image of God, so I doubt he's a leaf Recycling is cool, but don't worry there is a big sign in hell that says "VACANCY" Cupey
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>[Naturally these numbers are all out of my head, and are not to be taken as scientific fact, but you can at least follow my logic...[/b][/quote] Dude that's the point......it's all out of your head, and none of it is scientific. For you to make claims against science, you must at least have a mimimal knowledge of the science you are attempting to discredit. You don't appear to understand the cornerstones of evolutionary theory nor biology or astrophysics, so your arguments just appear to be random thoughts with little fact attached. When you understand the basics of these sciences, you begin to see that their claims are far from outlandish and actually make a great deal of sense. When you understand the scientific method and how theories are published and tested, you begin to understand how thoroughly these theories are scrutinised by the scientific community. Unfortunately, their conclusions go against your faith........and this is the key problem you are wrestling with. To admit the theory of evolution holds more merit than the theory of creation, to admit that the Earth is far more likely to be 4.5 billion yrs old rather than 6000yrs goes against your faith, which to you and others of deep religious persuasion would be unteneble. And never the twain shall meet.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> way to TUCK TAIL and run you say the methods are fallible yet offer NO PROOF that they are fact is you read the article, knew the guy fucked you till you loved him and decided to be a coward and totally skirt the issue, and the worst part is you cant bash him as an atheist because he ISNT ONE of course im in a position to ask you to address issues, you make basless statements and when i call you on them you run, simple really everything you say is based on assumption and belief, no hard facts at all and apparently you dont realize how long 4 BILLION years is, id say thats def long enough for evolutionary process your points: god HAS to exist?? says who? sures theres holes in evolutionary theory, thats why its a THEORY, but there are far less holes and assumptions than creationism life started due to mixing of certain energies that caused super complicated processes to occur SEE ABOVE for the 4 billion year issue your serve [/b][/quote] 4 billion years is NOT long enough for the random formation of life and then the evolutionary process (not to mention the little matter of the earth cooling and the atmosphere forming initially to allow life in the first place). I don't think you realize how long it would take to get from a single celled life form to the miilions of intricate species that we have today. I don't think you realize how long it would take (nevermind the fact that it is IMPOSSIBLE) for inorganic minerals to eventually form a life form that is capable of eating, breathing and procreating. Adogg...God and creation makes FAR MORE SENSE. Not even close. The Sly One has Spoken!! [/b][/quote] PROVE that it's not long enough. [/b][/quote] exactly assumption and belief, thats all hes got he apparently doesnt realize how long 4 BILLION years is the major difference between sly and me: for things that cannot YET be explained i go with the thought that we havent yet discovered it yet or dont have the means to figure it out yet, this line of thinking has always been proven correct throughout history sly on the other hand, assumes that since something cant be solved it MUST be god, he doesnt even bother to try and look for other alternatives hes trying to deduce that god is the end answer, problem is to deduce that you first have to disprove EVERY other possibility, but he hasnt disproved ANYTHING
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> yes but there is no sequence of numbers that is equal to infinity. your sequence of numbers can approach infinity but it will still be forever changing & growing and there will NEVER be a point where it's value is infinite. infinite implies constant and unchanging like sly says. infinity is a static state if it could grow, change or reduce in size it wouldn't be infinite. What's infinity minus one? Infinity plus one? [/b][/quote] "infinite implies constant and unchanging". Implies in what sense? sly said an infinite sequence must be such that each member in the sequence is the same as all the rest, so that an infinite universe would have the same event over and over, with no change. But i dont see the reason for this. "the sequence of numbers will never actually reach infinity". I don't see why this is relevant. It's the same as for any sequence. are you denying the possibility of infinite sequences? "Infinity is a static state. If it could grow, change or reduce in size it wouldn't be infinite." But this isnt relevant either. I'm not saying that the numerical sequence itself changes over time, e.g. saying at one point it has 1million members, and then that it has 1million-and-one members. I'm saying that there are differences between the members in the sequence. Sly said: "In an infinite sequence, there is no difference between each of the members." - and this is false. The sequence of numbers is infinite, and there are differences between its members. You and Sly seem to be responding with points about the finished sequence as a whole, but that isn't the issue. The issue is the difference between the sequence members. Whatever your other arguments for God, this infinity-implies-homogeneity argument is a weak one.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> each number in the sequence is CONSTANT. Every number that will ever exist is ALREADY there and always was. We are the ones that are picking and choosing numbers for whatever purposes we wish to...but the numbers and the sequences thereof are CONSTANT. Mathematics is SET, it may have DIFFERENT COMPONENTS....BUT the COMPONENTS ARE SET IN PLACE already. The difference is that the universe is NOT SET. It is still changing, it was always changing. It's compents CAME INTO BEING and some have GONE OUT OF EXISTENCE. It is EXPANDING. Time is affecting it. Time has NO EFFECTon the CONSTANT of Mathematics and it's components. Rooser...NUMBERS will ALWAYS be the same. They will NEVER change. Think about what I am saying. I shouldn't have to expand anymore than that. [/b][/quote] if you dont want to expand anymore then that's fine. you seem to have changed the argument. before it was: "In infinite sequences, each member is identical." now it's something like: "In infinite sequences, things don't go out of existence, and things are not temporally ordained." The differences you mention between the sequence of numbers and the sequence of events in the universe are accurate, but just not relevant!!!! So what if the numerical sequence is non-temporal and the universe's sequence is. You're now saying that infinite sequences cannot be temporal? What's your justification for that? It seems to be begging the question.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> I haven't read any of those books but I can tell you this without reading them: [/b][/quote] uh-oh sly, you laid a trap for yourself there.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> "the sequence of numbers will never actually reach infinity". I don't see why this is relevant. It's the same as for any sequence. are you denying the possibility of infinite sequences? [/b][/quote] if you have a point of reference (0 or 1 or 2 zillion) in that sequence yes I'm denying the sequence itself is infinite. the rest of the post seems to be directed at a post sly made which i don't agree with.
oh, maybe this will clear things up... when I made reference to sly in my post I was talking about some earlier posts he made, not the one that you quote in your response
The believers of God will always carry their blind faith, the key word here is blind. Non-believers choose to observe and explain the phenomenom we call life around us through experience and science. Believers will continue to live and limit their lives under the watchful eye of a Judging God, experiencing a false sense of free will. I highly doubt the believers truly believe in thier own religion, for they continue to sin, even the holiest of them. Non-blievers are freedom-fighters, the true hero of the stories, for they clearly see the fallacy of organized religion nothing more than a con to grab boys and money from the masses, while holding a strong control over them through the method of fear masquerating as love.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> I haven't read any of those books but I can tell you this without reading them: NONE of them can explain how life started. NOT even one! [/b][/quote] Nor can the bible, it's just a theory at the end of the day, like all the rest Remember too Sly, that there are two forms of life we know about here on earth, who's to say "God" isn't plant-like??? I think it's foolish to act as if you've got it all nailed when in reality we know next to nothing about the universe. Who's to say when certain exotic, intergalactic elements combine they produce life? These elements could have been carried to earth on a comet or asteroid or something and just happened to be lucky enough to land on a planet where the conditions were good enough for life to develop. What if the universe is actually just some other beings bloodstream or something? You know, like in Men In Black or whatever. Also, what are your feelings on reincarnation as opposed to everlasting life? If there is a heaven, or hell, whatever, and taking into account alien life too (which the law of averages suggests there is), as well as animal life, the numbers will keep on rising and rising and rising, after all, everyone and everything will die, heaven (or hell) will become overcrowded. Wouldn't it make more sense to "recycle"?? [/b][/quote] Hi God, you look a little leafy today. You might need a trim The bible says man was created in the image of God, so I doubt he's a leaf Recycling is cool, but don't worry there is a big sign in hell that says "VACANCY" Cupey [/b][/quote] Cupey, do yourself a favour and read what I wrote None of these theories are based on the Bible
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> The believers of God will always carry their blind faith, the key word here is blind. Non-believers choose to observe and explain the phenomenom we call life around us through experience and science. Believers will continue to live and limit their lives under the watchful eye of a Judging God, experiencing a false sense of free will. I highly doubt the believers truly believe in thier own religion, for they continue to sin, even the holiest of them. Non-blievers are freedom-fighters, the true hero of the stories, for they clearly see the fallacy of organized religion nothing more than a con to grab boys and money from the masses, while holding a strong control over them through the method of fear masquerating as love. [/b][/quote] blind faith is anybody who reads and just believe what he is told in school. Like all the lies we get told in our history books, science, books, and all kinds of brain washing done in school to create people with no values and empty minds. This is obvious in America where people become stupider every year, the country has gone down the sewer, yet we set we are a progressive society. The bible does not want blind fight, and wants us to be of a sound mind and body. Anyboddy in any religion because their parents made them do it is lost and is mentally weak. Cupey
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> The believers of God will always carry their blind faith, the key word here is blind. Non-believers choose to observe and explain the phenomenom we call life around us through experience and science. Believers will continue to live and limit their lives under the watchful eye of a Judging God, experiencing a false sense of free will. I highly doubt the believers truly believe in thier own religion, for they continue to sin, even the holiest of them. Non-blievers are freedom-fighters, the true hero of the stories, for they clearly see the fallacy of organized religion nothing more than a con to grab boys and money from the masses, while holding a strong control over them through the method of fear masquerating as love. [/b][/quote] blind faith can be bad, but what about open-eyed faith, i.e. "I know there's no reason to believe in God, but I believe in Him anyway", like Kierkegaard said. as long as you're not blowing up abortion clinics i dont think thre's any real problem. it's unfair to call organised religion a "con to grab boys and money from the masses". the ministers i know are only interested in helping society, dont care about taking money. if they wanted money they'd become merchant bankers. and i dont believe they abuse boys. "I highly doubt the believers truly believe in thier own religion, for they continue to sin, even the holiest of them." every huuman being on the planet is like this - we have ethical rules we try to live by, but which we often find hard to follow. e.g. parents trying to control their anger towards an unruly child. they truly believe it's wrong to get angry, yet it's still very hard to control one's emotions. it doesn't mean we don't actually believe in those ethical rules.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> if you have a point of reference (0 or 1 or 2 zillion) in that sequence yes I'm denying the sequence itself is infinite. [/b][/quote] i dont get this point
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> if you have a point of reference (0 or 1 or 2 zillion) in that sequence yes I'm denying the sequence itself is infinite. [/b][/quote] i dont get this point [/b][/quote] yeah, i think that's our big point of contention in this whole thing
as a matter of fact the word "sequence" itself implies a succession of something, one number or event etc following the other so yes I outright deny the possibility of infinite sequences. No sequence is, has or ever will be infinite. An infinite sequence is more a mathematical idea to help us understand what happens as our numbers, domain, whatever continues to grow indefinitely, or to say "this is the set of all numbers" not an actual, real world occurance b/c in the real world we have a point of reference in any sequence which automatically excludes it from being infinite... of course this probably didn't help either :(
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> as a matter of fact the word "sequence" itself implies a succession of something, one number or event etc following the other so yes I outright deny the possibility of infinite sequences. No sequence is, has or ever will be infinite. An infinite sequence is more a mathematical idea to help us understand what happens as our numbers, domain, whatever continues to grow indefinitely, or to say "this is the set of all numbers" not an actual, real world occurance b/c in the real world we have a point of reference in any sequence which automatically excludes it from being infinite... of course this probably didn't help either :( [/b][/quote] I don't know... this is easily understandable to me. I don't have a problem with it. Of course it is just a philosophical discussion and in the end it may not matter but hey, it is fun to read you guys. Keep up the good work.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> The believers of God will always carry their blind faith, the key word here is blind. Non-believers choose to observe and explain the phenomenom we call life around us through experience and science. Believers will continue to live and limit their lives under the watchful eye of a Judging God, experiencing a false sense of free will. I highly doubt the believers truly believe in thier own religion, for they continue to sin, even the holiest of them. Non-blievers are freedom-fighters, the true hero of the stories, for they clearly see the fallacy of organized religion nothing more than a con to grab boys and money from the masses, while holding a strong control over them through the method of fear masquerating as love. [/b][/quote] :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: ::
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> The believers of God will always carry their blind faith, the key word here is blind. Non-believers choose to observe and explain the phenomenom we call life around us through experience and science. Believers will continue to live and limit their lives under the watchful eye of a Judging God, experiencing a false sense of free will. I highly doubt the believers truly believe in thier own religion, for they continue to sin, even the holiest of them. Non-blievers are freedom-fighters, the true hero of the stories, for they clearly see the fallacy of organized religion nothing more than a con to grab boys and money from the masses, while holding a strong control over them through the method of fear masquerating as love. [/b][/quote] :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: [/b][/quote] Ignorance in full force Cupey
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> The believers of God will always carry their blind faith, the key word here is blind. Non-believers choose to observe and explain the phenomenom we call life around us through experience and science. Believers will continue to live and limit their lives under the watchful eye of a Judging God, experiencing a false sense of free will. I highly doubt the believers truly believe in thier own religion, for they continue to sin, even the holiest of them. Non-blievers are freedom-fighters, the true hero of the stories, for they clearly see the fallacy of organized religion nothing more than a con to grab boys and money from the masses, while holding a strong control over them through the method of fear masquerating as love. [/b][/quote] :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: [/b][/quote] Ignorance in full force Cupey [/b][/quote] Cupey, I spent 10 years going to CCD classes and listening to all the dogma and horseshit. Don't even try the "ignorance" arguement.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> The believers of God will always carry their blind faith, the key word here is blind. Non-believers choose to observe and explain the phenomenom we call life around us through experience and science. Believers will continue to live and limit their lives under the watchful eye of a Judging God, experiencing a false sense of free will. I highly doubt the believers truly believe in thier own religion, for they continue to sin, even the holiest of them. Non-blievers are freedom-fighters, the true hero of the stories, for they clearly see the fallacy of organized religion nothing more than a con to grab boys and money from the masses, while holding a strong control over them through the method of fear masquerating as love. [/b][/quote] :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: [/b][/quote] Ignorance in full force Cupey [/b][/quote] Cupey, I spent 10 years going to CCD classes and listening to all the dogma and horseshit. Don't even try the "ignorance" arguement. [/b][/quote] Then have your ears checked. CCD. I actually taught CCD and I knew nothing about religion. That could explain your problems. Cupey
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> The believers of God will always carry their blind faith, the key word here is blind. Non-believers choose to observe and explain the phenomenom we call life around us through experience and science. Believers will continue to live and limit their lives under the watchful eye of a Judging God, experiencing a false sense of free will. I highly doubt the believers truly believe in thier own religion, for they continue to sin, even the holiest of them. Non-blievers are freedom-fighters, the true hero of the stories, for they clearly see the fallacy of organized religion nothing more than a con to grab boys and money from the masses, while holding a strong control over them through the method of fear masquerating as love. [/b][/quote] :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: [/b][/quote] Ignorance in full force Cupey [/b][/quote] Cupey, I spent 10 years going to CCD classes and listening to all the dogma and horseshit. Don't even try the "ignorance" arguement. [/b][/quote] Then have your ears checked. CCD. I actually taught CCD and I knew nothing about religion. That could explain your problems. Cupey [/b][/quote] Cupey, I've studied up plenty on your religion. That's why I'm so disgusted by it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> No Sly, just no. [/b][/quote] Yes, dude, YES. Atheism is the biggest bunch of mindless nonsense ever conceived by mankind. They'd rather believe in universes springing out of nothingness, reproductive life happening without a cause, and there not needing to be answers to anything....than to submit to the only logical conclusion that there is a God. Atheisms is the most embarrasingly idiotic of any current belief. The Sly One has Spoken!!
