I like the way believers make excuses for a non-entity who goes by the name of god. Who's fooling who?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Let's say there is a God, and by virtue of being God he is all powerful. Let's say that this God commands us to worship him or else he'll punish us. If he's all powerful he can make good his promise and there'll be nothing that we can do about it (because we are NOT all powerful). Therefore in such a situation it would make sense to worship him don't you think? The Sly One has Spoken!! [/b][/quote]
it might be logical that there is a higher being, but it is illogical to think that it wants/needs our adoration or praise. Personally I don't believe in a higher being, especially one that was first "materialized within the last 5000 years. I'm not a scientist either so don't ask me how it all started, but it has been fairly recent in mankinds history that the concept of one god came into existence. That doesn't preclude there wasn't anything before, but it certainly puts a bad slant on all the religious writings that came up within the last 2-5000 years.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> God is a HUMAN invention. [/b][/quote] HUMAN is a God invention. [/b][/quote] do animals worship GOD? [/b][/quote] Yep. Humans are animals. And many humans worship God. [/b][/quote] Clever guy :YeahRight: By the way, if there is a God, what is the use in worshipping Him? What good would it do anything? Nothing would change if we did or didn't worship Him. [/b][/quote] Sir Slice, I have come to the same conclusion. If there is a God, and by definition, he knows all, then He knows who will or won't make it to heaven, and there is not a thing you can do to change it, because God's will is God's will, then why bother. Good point. :: [/b][/quote] Why thank you very much Hairy
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> By the way, if there is a God, what is the use in worshipping Him? What good would it do anything? Nothing would change if we did or didn't worship Him. [/b][/quote] Whether we should worship him or not is irrelevant to this thread...but I'll adress that anyway. Let's say there is a God, and by virtue of being God he is all powerful. Let's say that this God commands us to worship him or else he'll punish us. If he's all powerful he can make good his promise and there'll be nothing that we can do about it (because we are NOT all powerful). Therefore in such a situation it would make sense to worship him don't you think? But that's going off the topic. The Sly One has Spoken!! [/b][/quote] Just to adress this; It would make sense if it was proven there was a God, but it hasn't BEEN proven, and we haven't been threatened in any such way, so it doesn't make sense. Also, back to my Gamma ray thing. Gamma rays are incredibly huge bursts of energy which have come from approx. 8 billion light years away, the energy flow is STILL constant to this day and as far as we know are still going just as strong, which has never been seen before. The bursts are so old, that scientists believe they have come from the very edge of the universe, hence them taking so long to reach us. The problem here is, the bursts are SO huge, their energy FAR exceeds their mass, which defies the most fundamental law in physics...E=mc2. Scientists are baffled, they have come up with alot of theories but none can explain it 100%. My point here is, you use "logic" to explain the presence of an intelligent God, but as I said, our "logic" is restricted only to within the knowledge of our own solar system, which is but a grain of sand on the vast beach which is space. Gamma rays defy logic, which means you can't rely on it to explain the presence of a God. We simply don't know enough about the universe and we most likely never will.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> By the way, if there is a God, what is the use in worshipping Him? What good would it do anything? Nothing would change if we did or didn't worship Him. [/b][/quote] Whether we should worship him or not is irrelevant to this thread...but I'll adress that anyway. Let's say there is a God, and by virtue of being God he is all powerful. Let's say that this God commands us to worship him or else he'll punish us. If he's all powerful he can make good his promise and there'll be nothing that we can do about it (because we are NOT all powerful). Therefore in such a situation it would make sense to worship him don't you think? But that's going off the topic. The Sly One has Spoken!! [/b][/quote] Sly-baby...if a thing/being/entity powerful enough to have created all that surrounds us, needs the adoration and blind worship of a bunch of neo-chimps who keep slaughtering each other and everything ELSE alive (that it also created), then that's a being that embodies the worst traits of human beings, that we are supposed to fight against and overcome - at least, according to the Bible. The 'God' shown in the Bible, is petty, vengeful, murderous, angry, jealous, covetous...everything deemed evil or bad. It picks sides in conflicts, blindly slaughters millions, then threatens "eternal damnation" to any being who does not adore it. HARDLY anything to worship. One would be far better off worshipping only Jesus, the son of God, who preached and also demonstrated love of ALL mankind; he didn't pick and choose, nor kill anyone who didn't follow his teachings. I've always found that an interesting conundrum, and strange to say the least. God hates? Jesus Loves. Jesus speaks for God, but God will torture you if you don't believe? :wacko: Sounds suspiciously like HUMAN traits being transposed onto a Creator, by those who wish to control via fear. That's why I don't believe in the "God" that organized religion created, but I DO believe in a Creator. -Marcy
I'm pretty much with you on that, Marcy - it's a bit hard to go against your points. Though, I'm not so sure about the existence of a creator anyway. It's almost as much of a philosophical question than it is a question based in any kind of reality. One never really knows, though.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> I'm pretty much with you on that, Marcy - it's a bit hard to go against your points. Though, I'm not so sure about the existence of a creator anyway. It's almost as much of a philosophical question than it is a question based in any kind of reality. One never really knows, though. [/b][/quote] Whassup, C? Hell - it's all Neo-Chimp speculation anyway, right? What we don't know and never will know, FAR outweighs what we'd like to THINK we know, or have guessed. I just look for logic, and failing that, try to see the larger picture. Speculation is fun! -Marcy
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Sly-baby...if a thing/being/entity powerful enough to have created all that surrounds us, needs the adoration and blind worship of a bunch of neo-chimps who keep slaughtering each other and everything ELSE alive (that it also created), then that's a being that embodies the worst traits of human beings, that we are supposed to fight against and overcome - at least, according to the Bible. The 'God' shown in the Bible, is petty, vengeful, murderous, angry, jealous, covetous...everything deemed evil or bad. It picks sides in conflicts, blindly slaughters millions, then threatens "eternal damnation" to any being who does not adore it. HARDLY anything to worship. One would be far better off worshipping only Jesus, the son of God, who preached and also demonstrated love of ALL mankind; he didn't pick and choose, nor kill anyone who didn't follow his teachings. I've always found that an interesting conundrum, and strange to say the least. God hates? Jesus Loves. Jesus speaks for God, but God will torture you if you don't believe? :wacko: Sounds suspiciously like HUMAN traits being transposed onto a Creator, by those who wish to control via fear. That's why I don't believe in the "God" that organized religion created, but I DO believe in a Creator. -Marcy [/b][/quote] Hmm...interesting. You are a very smart girl Marcy, I like you. :cheek: Marcy, this is not a "cop out" but the Scriptures (Bible) isn't easy to understand. It literally takes God to explain certain things. Now....God has shown that he is vengeful, "murderous", angry and jealous etc...but you have to understand that in its context and then understand WHY it is CORRECT for him to exhibit these traits but not necessarily for men. God is LOVE, but he HATES sin. That's the simple answer I guess. Sin is disobedience. Disobedience is going against God's word. God is not bound by the laws that we are simply because he is perfect and everything is dependent upon him. He sees the end from the beginning and knows everything so he is the perfect judge. As such he has THE RIGHT to avenge sin. He has THE RIGHT to be Jealous if the men that he created try to worship false Gods. He has THE RIGHT to kill those that he created if they are doing wrong. HE has the right....WE don't. It's that simple. We don't because we are imperfect, weak, limited and so we CANNOT take the law into our own hands...so to speak. As to why he needs the adoration...he wants it. Nothing wrong in that. On the human level, if we achieve something great we want to be recognized. If there is a God and he did create all things by himself...he wants the recognition and the respect from his creation. That's his right. He doesn't NEED to prove himself but nevertheless he wants to be recognised and loved. Nothing wrong in that. By the way...you are wrong in your depection of Jesus. This "gentle Jesus" is a Myth. Jesus preached love but he also said that Many would go to hell, that many were snakes and vipers and of their father the devil, that unless he was followed they couldn't get to heaven, that people must sin no more or be condemned...etc. Marcy, Jesus wasn't popular in his time, like the myth, there was a reason why they wanted him crucified. He offended people. He spoke of wrath and condemnation and everything else that the God of the OT spoke of. In the end of his ministry only the TWELVE followed him (and he said that ONE was a devil). There is no contradiction between jesus and God if you truly read the scriptures. That is a Myth. No such thing as a "gentle Jesus" It's good that you believe in a creator....because that is the only thing that makes sense. I can understand why you choose not to believe in religion because religion as a WHOLE is corrupt. However, if there is an intelligent creator it stands to reason that he would communicate with us at some point and through some medium. To me it makes sense. Therefore while the vast majority of religion is corrupt and incorrect....there must be something out there (JUST ONE mind you) that has to be true. Just one other thought. God doesn't have human traits, he just has personal traits. He is without sin, but being a self-aware individual, he has emotion. If he is a personal deity he will have personal traits, not human (although humans may share some) just personal. To me a creator would HAVE to be a person (as opposed to impersonal energy I don't mean human) in order to design and create. Just a few thoughts... The Sly One has Spoken!!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> As for me having problems, Sly, I am not the one who is constantly starting threads trying to convince and convert others to think like I do. I let others be. If you want to worship god, satan, jesus, mickey mouse, or whoever, it doesn't matter to me. So be it. But you on the other hand can not accept the fact that there others who don't think like you. There are those who don't see the truth in what you regard as sacred. Sooner or later you're going to have to accept that not everyone shares your belief and you can huff and puff about cause and effect all you want to but it doesn't change a thing. [/b][/quote] What does this have to do with anything? We discuss boxing don't we. We do not all have the same views. We discuss politics, women, social issues. Why do YOU have such a "hangup" about discussing God? I accept the fact that we all have different viewpoints, but what's wrong with sharing my own. When we are discussing boxing no one complains that anyone is "constantly starting threads trying to convince and convert others to think like I do". But when God comes up all of the athiests get offended. Why is that? The Sly One has Spoken!! [/b][/quote] So you say the Atheists are the people who are always getting offended about this type of talk? That shows how clueless you are. What do we atheists have to be offended about? Our beliefs are always discriminated against and under attack. To quote the British band Starsailor "When you're so sensitive, there's a long way to fall." Now, someone like you who believes that a higher being controls everything we do, doesn't have a leg to stand on in this type of conversation. I don't wish to convert people into Atheists. Religious people still serve a great purpose in my life. Comic relief! I view the religious as weak, hypocritical, and corny. Who knows. Maybe at one time in my life I'll feel so helpless and weak that I'll nail up a crucifix of some dead naked biker and convince myself that if I pray to it and worship it that I'll have a better life and he'll watch out for me. Until then I'll continue living in reality if that's okay, your holiness! :crybaby:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> So you say the Atheists are the people who are always getting offended about this type of talk? That shows how clueless you are. What do we atheists have to be offended about? Our beliefs are always discriminated against and under attack. To quote the British band Starsailor "When you're so sensitive, there's a long way to fall." Now, someone like you who believes that a higher being controls everything we do, doesn't have a leg to stand on in this type of conversation. I don't wish to convert people into Atheists. Religious people still serve a great purpose in my life. Comic relief! I view the religious as weak, hypocritical, and corny. Who knows. Maybe at one time in my life I'll feel so helpless and weak that I'll nail up a crucifix of some dead naked biker and convince myself that if I pray to it and worship it that I'll have a better life and he'll watch out for me. Until then I'll continue living in reality if that's okay, your holiness! :crybaby: [/b][/quote] You got problems dude. And if you think that "reality" is that we all just happened to appear with perfectly working bodies, the ability to eat, think and reproduce etc...by chance and without any intelligence behind it.... you're blind, deaf, dumb, helpless and weak. No offense buddy. The Sly One has Spoken!!
Sly, I would really be interested in hearing your views on the Gamma ray thing. You're a smart guy just wanna hear your side of the arguement. BTW, I love these kind of debates.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Sly, I would really be interested in hearing your views on the Gamma ray thing. You're a smart guy just wanna hear your side of the arguement. BTW, I love these kind of debates. [/b][/quote] Let me look at your posts again I'm not too familiar with Gamma Rays and the implications thereof.
Hey Sly - you may just accomplish the one thing I never, EVER would have thought I'd do again in this lifetime. Re-read the Bible. I read it (especially the Old Testament) several times as a kid, but have not cracked those pages since. Of course, I would be doing this with a specific purpose in mind - hunting 'The Big Picture' and also seeing if what you said about Jesus actually holds water, since the Jesus I remember reading about preached the importance of accepting ALL people, no matter what they had done in the past, but there ya go. I think the most difficult part, will be locating a version as UN-rewritten as possible. There is far too long a history of whichever Pope was at the helm, having offending passages reworded to suit his preferences and mindframe. At any rate, thanks for a mentally engaging give and take. It is most appreciated. -Marcy
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Just to adress this; It would make sense if it was proven there was a God, but it hasn't BEEN proven, and we haven't been threatened in any such way, so it doesn't make sense. Also, back to my Gamma ray thing. Gamma rays are incredibly huge bursts of energy which have come from approx. 8 billion light years away, the energy flow is STILL constant to this day and as far as we know are still going just as strong, which has never been seen before. The bursts are so old, that scientists believe they have come from the very edge of the universe, hence them taking so long to reach us. The problem here is, the bursts are SO huge, their energy FAR exceeds their mass, which defies the most fundamental law in physics...E=mc2. Scientists are baffled, they have come up with alot of theories but none can explain it 100%. My point here is, you use "logic" to explain the presence of an intelligent God, but as I said, our "logic" is restricted only to within the knowledge of our own solar system, which is but a grain of sand on the vast beach which is space. Gamma rays defy logic, which means you can't rely on it to explain the presence of a God. We simply don't know enough about the universe and we most likely never will. [/b][/quote] I haven't research it as yet but I take your word for it. Gamma Ray may defy known science, but they do not defy logic. That's the difference. Let me explain the difference. Science is constantly in motion and evolving. Mankind learns more and more about the environment around him (including the universe) as he progresses. Theories come and go and change constantly. Logic is different. Logic counters contradiction. Logic is the basis of understanding. Nothing illogical can be true. Examples of logic. Something Red IS RED. If someone died, there must be a reason. If a man has only two apples he cannot have three. This is simple logic. Logic is basic intelligence. Cause and effect is simple logic. It is not a scientific theory...it is a universal principle. Everything thought, every idea, every learning is dependent on this principle. So...the concept of Gamma Rays is a theory (it could change) but the concept there being a higher intelligence and first cause is LOGICAL, the opposite is ILLOGICAL (in other words impossible/contradictory etc). Following the principles of simple logic leads to a definite conclusion....just like 1+1+1=3. That's the difference. The Sly One has Spoken!!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Hey Sly - you may just accomplish the one thing I never, EVER would have thought I'd do again in this lifetime. Re-read the Bible. I read it (especially the Old Testament) several times as a kid, but have not cracked those pages since. Of course, I would be doing this with a specific purpose in mind - hunting 'The Big Picture' and also seeing if what you said about Jesus actually holds water, since the Jesus I remember reading about preached the importance of accepting ALL people, no matter what they had done in the past, but there ya go. I think the most difficult part, will be locating a version as UN-rewritten as possible. There is far too long a history of whichever Pope was at the helm, having offending passages reworded to suit his preferences and mindframe. At any rate, thanks for a mentally engaging give and take. It is most appreciated. -Marcy [/b][/quote] You are very welcome. A few points. Jesus did indeed accept anyone from any background...as long as they followed him and decided to sin no more. That is the part that everyone forgets about. Jesus would accept prostitutes, homosexuals, murderers and whoever.....as long as they repented, followed him and decided to sin no more. That is not in contradiction with the God of the Old Testament. David slept with Basheba, a married woman, and had her husband killed. What can be worse than that. God, through a prophet, rebuked him and David repented. God forgave him. This God is consistent with Jesus wouldn't you say. Conversely, the Pharisees followed the law to a "T", obeyed all of the commandments and lived very Holy Lives....MUCH better than some of thieves and prostitutes that Jesus had accepted. Jesus however CONDEMNED THEM TO HELL, if they didn't accept that he was the son of God. Again this is consistent with the God of the Old Testament. It's not so much what you have done before, it more what you do when he calls you. You are right, sometimes we need to re-read and understand for ourselves. Truthfully, the scriptures say that only the spiritual man can understand them. However, anyone in any condition could attempt to understand them and if their heart is pure and their intentions good they WILL be given understanding. It's been a pleasure. The Sly One has Spoken!!
Damn sly, you resurrect this topic every year just like clockwork..is there anypoint in arguing with you given that you conveniently forget each counterpoint each time you resurrect it?? I think thats the most salient question in this case.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> By the way, if there is a God, what is the use in worshipping Him? What good would it do anything? Nothing would change if we did or didn't worship Him. [/b][/quote] Whether we should worship him or not is irrelevant to this thread...but I'll adress that anyway. Let's say there is a God, and by virtue of being God he is all powerful. Let's say that this God commands us to worship him or else he'll punish us. If he's all powerful he can make good his promise and there'll be nothing that we can do about it (because we are NOT all powerful). Therefore in such a situation it would make sense to worship him don't you think? But that's going off the topic. The Sly One has Spoken!! [/b][/quote] :huh: I didn't like this response Sly... I think for the Christian, worship is more for us than for Him... God wouldn't even accept insincere worship... where in the Bible does God command EVERYONE to worship Him?
Well, Black - I think it takes a bit of interpretation, but I have always gotten that same impression, though not in a positive manner. Especially in the Old Testament, 'God' was always embroiled in some sort of war, on the side of whomever sacrificed the most in His name. Laid waste to entire regions, and all that. Walls of Jericho, Sodom and Gemorrah, etc. Since He was always willing to lay the permanent smack-down on non-believers, it could well be interpreted in that manner. -M
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> :huh: I didn't like this response Sly... I think for the Christian, worship is more for us than for Him... God wouldn't even accept insincere worship... where in the Bible does God command EVERYONE to worship Him? [/b][/quote] "the hour cometh and now is when the TRUE worshippers shall worship The Father in Spirit and Truth. God is a Spirit and those that worship him are to worship him in Spirit and Truth." Maybe I shouldn't have used the word COMMAND, but unless we worship God we are lost, according to the scriptures. Therefore it is tantamount to the same thing. Sure God only accepts sincere worship and doesn't BULLY us into worshipping him...but those that are his would worship him. Perhaps I phrased it incorrectly. But really I was using a somewhat hypothetical situation to illustrate a point to Sir Slice N Dice. The Sly One has Spoken!!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Damn sly, you resurrect this topic every year just like clockwork..is there anypoint in arguing with you given that you conveniently forget each counterpoint each time you resurrect it?? I think thats the most salient question in this case. [/b][/quote] You HAVE no counterpoint Salaco! :huh: Every attempt of a counterpoint from your direction on this topic is EASILY refuted by me. You entire basis last time out was in the theory of quantum mechanics (contradictory unproven mess), infinite causal chains (not possible) and the possibility of causeless events (another contradictory mess). I refuted those using simple logic and you simply decided to agree to disagree. You said that such things are only "counterintuitive" but not "illogical" and I showed you the error in logic. Try me again...I'm just getting warmed up!! :fro: The Sly One has Spoken!!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Damn sly, you resurrect this topic every year just like clockwork..is there anypoint in arguing with you given that you conveniently forget each counterpoint each time you resurrect it?? I think thats the most salient question in this case. [/b][/quote] That's why I can't believe people are still taking this guy seriously. Last time he had one of these topics he was pretty much laughed out of this forum and yet he's back like it didn't happen. He's persistent, I'll give him that. And with that 3 x convicted wifebeater in his avatar he represents your hypocritical Christian to a tee. "Do as I say, not as I do." :Calvin Brock:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> That's why I can't believe people are still taking this guy seriously. Last time he had one of these topics he was pretty much laughed out of this forum and yet he's back like it didn't happen. He's persistent, I'll give him that. And with that 3 x convicted wifebeater in his avatar he represents your hypocritical Christian to a tee. "Do as I say, not as I do." :Calvin Brock: [/b][/quote] You live in a DREAM WORLD son. :spadafora: "Laughed out of the forum"?? Have you lost your mind!! No one could refute my points and then they simply disappeared off topic. Where did you get that from? If I remember correctly, all you did was use profanity and blasphemy but you had NOTHING OF SUBSTANCE to contribute. You got problems man. Something musta happened to you as a kid that you still blame God for. That's your problem dude don't take it out on me. The Sly One has Spoken!!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Just to adress this; It would make sense if it was proven there was a God, but it hasn't BEEN proven, and we haven't been threatened in any such way, so it doesn't make sense. Also, back to my Gamma ray thing. Gamma rays are incredibly huge bursts of energy which have come from approx. 8 billion light years away, the energy flow is STILL constant to this day and as far as we know are still going just as strong, which has never been seen before. The bursts are so old, that scientists believe they have come from the very edge of the universe, hence them taking so long to reach us. The problem here is, the bursts are SO huge, their energy FAR exceeds their mass, which defies the most fundamental law in physics...E=mc2. Scientists are baffled, they have come up with alot of theories but none can explain it 100%. My point here is, you use "logic" to explain the presence of an intelligent God, but as I said, our "logic" is restricted only to within the knowledge of our own solar system, which is but a grain of sand on the vast beach which is space. Gamma rays defy logic, which means you can't rely on it to explain the presence of a God. We simply don't know enough about the universe and we most likely never will. [/b][/quote] I haven't research it as yet but I take your word for it. Gamma Ray may defy known science, but they do not defy logic. That's the difference. Let me explain the difference. Science is constantly in motion and evolving. Mankind learns more and more about the environment around him (including the universe) as he progresses. Theories come and go and change constantly. Logic is different. Logic counters contradiction. Logic is the basis of understanding. Nothing illogical can be true. Examples of logic. Something Red IS RED. If someone died, there must be a reason. If a man has only two apples he cannot have three. This is simple logic. Logic is basic intelligence. Cause and effect is simple logic. It is not a scientific theory...it is a universal principle. Everything thought, every idea, every learning is dependent on this principle. So...the concept of Gamma Rays is a theory (it could change) but the concept there being a higher intelligence and first cause is LOGICAL, the opposite is ILLOGICAL (in other words impossible/contradictory etc). Following the principles of simple logic leads to a definite conclusion....just like 1+1+1=3. That's the difference. The Sly One has Spoken!! [/b][/quote] The two can overlap. For things as advanced as the universe, we rely on science to provide us with logic. For example, it would be illogical to say next year will last 500 days, why? Because science has proven it takes the earth 365/66 days to orbit the sun. Our intelligence is based on discoveries, even religion. If no one had told you about what goes on in the bible, and there was no mention of it on television or in books or whatever, would you still have thought about it, by yourself? I doubt it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> The two can overlap. For things as advanced as the universe, we rely on science to provide us with logic. For example, it would be illogical to say next year will last 500 days, why? Because science has proven it takes the earth 365/66 days to orbit the sun. Our intelligence is based on discoveries, even religion. If no one had told you about what goes on in the bible, and there was no mention of it on television or in books or whatever, would you still have thought about it, by yourself? I doubt it. [/b][/quote] Good attempt you are a smart man, but this example is wrong: "For example, it would be illogical to say next year will last 500 days, why? Because science has proven it takes the earth 365/66 days to orbit the sun." - SIR Dice N Slice Nice try. But it's not a logical/illogical issue. It would NOT be illogical for the Earth to have 500 days in a year. It would be IMPROBABLE and COUNTERINTUITIVE but NOT illogical. It is theoretically possible. The Earth could shift orbit for some reason. The gravitational pull of the Sun could diminish for some reason. The point is, there can be a reason for it to happen if it did happen. It's not impossible. What would be illogical is IF the earth STOPPED MOVING (relative to the sun) through space but yet still had a 365 day year. THAT is an example of illogical....because if the Earth was stationary....a year would be INFINITE!! Do you see the difference? The Sly One has Spoken!!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> That's why I can't believe people are still taking this guy seriously. Last time he had one of these topics he was pretty much laughed out of this forum and yet he's back like it didn't happen. He's persistent, I'll give him that. And with that 3 x convicted wifebeater in his avatar he represents your hypocritical Christian to a tee. "Do as I say, not as I do." :Calvin Brock: [/b][/quote] You live in a DREAM WORLD son. :spadafora: "Laughed out of the forum"?? Have you lost your mind!! No one could refute my points and then they simply disappeared off topic. Where did you get that from? If I remember correctly, all you did was use profanity and blasphemy but you had NOTHING OF SUBSTANCE to contribute. You got problems man. Something musta happened to you as a kid that you still blame God for. That's your problem dude don't take it out on me. The Sly One has Spoken!! [/b][/quote] You're whole life revolves around the idea that your "savior" (who couldn't save himself froma humiliating death) is going to come back to earth and save you from eternal damnation.(2,000 years and counting) You live your life according to a book that depicts snakes talking to men. You believe that mortal men can talk to god and he'll listen and talk back to us. Yet, I am the guy who is living in a dream world?
you say "The existence of causeless events is 'illogical' ", and some of us reject that, slystaff. the whole neat little distinction between "logical" & "illogical" is dubious have you read hume on causation, or quine's 'two dogmas'?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> your "savior" (who couldn't save himself froma humiliating death) [/b][/quote] in the story, he coulda saved himself. he chose to be crucified, in order to atone for our sins.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> you say "The existence of causeless events is 'illogical' ", and some of us reject that, slystaff. the whole neat little distinction between "logical" & "illogical" is dubious have you read hume on causation, or quine's 'two dogmas'? [/b][/quote] Rooster, I haven;t read those books but you explain it to me. How can causeless events be possible?? We've been down this road before. IF causeless events are possible...THEN we'll have to throw science out of the window. We'll have to throw any logic out of the window. IF causeless events were possible...at any moment in time for no given reason a BLUE tree could spring out of the ground with read leaves and the fruit that it bares would be GOLDEN apples. A dinosaur the size of texas could suddenly fall out of the sky. The sky itself could turn red with green stripes and thunder could sound like one of Beethoven's songs. ANY THING WOULD BE POSSIBLE and there would be NO REASON for anything. It would be ANARCHY and we may as well not think!!!!!!!! Do you think that all of the above is possible???? The Sly One has Spoken!!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> in the story, he coulda saved himself. he chose to be crucified, in order to atone for our sins. [/b][/quote] Correct.
