Don King negotiating Trinidad vs. Taylor

Donny, I know he defended his title lots of times etc.

So did Mikkelboofski and Ottke, are they elite?

Just tell me one thing, what A class fighter did Tito ever beat?

 

For the sake of argument, I shall say Oscar. :tease:

 

Yup, and that's the only fighter you could possibly say, and that would have to be for no other reason than to be argumentative.

It was a horrible fight, and oscar ended up being a bitch, but if anyone deserved to win the fight, it certainly wasn't tito put it that way.

I don't think anyone really believes Tito won 7 rounds of that fight.

 

Tito should have got him. I think Tito by then was starting to become the left hook happy Plodder. If he tried BOXING more early I think he could'a put DLH out

 

Tito,....as flawed as he was, was a fantastic offensive fighter with fight changing power.

He ruined three very talented fighters (Reid, Vargas and Joppy) with his firepower.

Styles make fights,..and imo Taylor has the style, but he is too inconsistent and will get caught in the mid to late rounds.

Just watch.

 

I could see that, very possibly..

but vs Pavlik I think the style match is bad and I think Pavlik would take Tito out in 5 or less

 

Pavliks style is MADE for Trinidad's style. If Tito is finished, then yes.

If he is still as good as he was when he butchered Mayorga,....Tito will rape Pavlik.

 

come on.. Mayo??

Mayo is a wild haymaker swinging clown

Pavlik has a high volume, good power and is naturally bigger guy

 

c'mon man, as Donny said, you can question his all-time greatness and his legacy, but not his status as one of the best of his time. You can't deny his accomplishments, or belittle them by saying he didn't beat an A fighter. The same could be said about almost everybody. Then, I want to know which boxers do you consider "elite" between 147 lbs and 160 lbs in the years that Tito was fighting :dunno: I guess you'll say no one, or just name 2

 

That's my point. What does MWS mean by "elite"? ONE of the best of his generation? HOFer? PxPer at his prime? Top of whatever division he was in? Elite THEN....or elite "now" as in an "all-time great"?

Seems like the focus has shifted back and forth.

You can debate Tito's legacy and greatness in the 'all time' sense, either PxP or in the divisions he was in...absolutely no question - and absolutely true there was alot of "overrating" of him going on - like there is with almost any active top fighter at their time.

But to argue that he wasn't "elite" when he was in the game - and bring up losses and comparing those performances to other fighters who took on the same opponet without considering weight class, career stage, age, and status/retirement is simply misleading. It's not - and hardly ever is - an apples-to-apples comparison.

I can also see him as top 10-20 in possibly two of the three divisions he was best at/most active.

Elite means one of the best of his class....I certainly thought Trinidad was among that group during his peak/prime years.

Peace.

 

Donny - Has Tito ever beaten a prime, A class fighter?

And I'm not calling Tito a bum. He was an A class fighter. But he was never able to beat another A class fighter, which is the mark of a true elite fighter.

He was one of the best in his division yes, and a legit champion. Which makes him an A class fighter.

But unlike Mosley, De La Hoya, Floyd, Pacman, Morales, Barrera etc etc - he never beat a fellow A class fighter, so he is not an elite fighter.

And by the way, Tito was a 3 to 1 favourite to beat hopkins, and looked like a monster in steamrolling joppy, and he was in his prime so I think it's fair enough to hold that loss against him.

 

Ok...that is much clearer.

Would you like me to point out all of the fighters considered "great" in terms of their historical legacy (which I am now assuming is what you mean) that NEVER beat a fellow "elite/great"?

And I have never said that it is not fair to hold the Hops loss against him. Read the posts.

What I have said is that comparing Hops-Trinidad directly to Taylor-Trinidad is not an apples-to-apples comparison, and that is simply true.

If you think he was "A class" - whatever that means - great. I believe Trinidad was of the top class of his generation, will be a first-ballot HOFer, and is a "great" fighter that should be ranked probably in the top 20-30 of WWTs and Jr. MWTs.

Does that mean I think he is at the level of other fighters you've mentioned or other historical greats? No. Not necessarily.

Peace.

 

In terms of his ring success, multiple weight champion, overall career, record, and of course... popularity :: Then yes, he is a great fighter.

And I agree with you on the all time rankings too. That's about where tito should be.

But I'm just pointing out that people overrate his ability. He often gets called the best Rican fighter ever. And talked about as an elite fighter in terms of ability.

He isn't, he is the most popular Rican fighter ever.

And to this day, the fact that many people would confidently pick him over Taylor or Pavlik illustrates how overrated Trinidad really is.

 

Tito-Taylor would be a great fight. Please make it happen :bears:

 

It's a great proposition if you're a Tito hater, for sure.

 

Apparently Trinidad turned down a Taylor fight and wants rematches with Hopkins and De La Hoya.

 

dsimon writes:

:laughing: :laughing:

 

dsimon writes:

You know those mexicans and Puerto Rican Spanish.:: ::

 

dsimon writes:

Stop teasing the greatest translator. I bet you don't speak as many languages as Torres... why he was translating in Calzighe's corner during the Hopkins fight and it was spot on... I even took the liberty of transliterating it for you haters..... Torres speaking for Enzo after the first round of the Calzighe Hopkins fight:

Enzo: Hiyahera fucker! motherfucker hera hiya bur@##$#@@ mother fucker piss of a sheep motherfucker !@#%$ Black Bastard goddamit

Torres translating: Come on keep your hands up you sheep baby, come on don't let him knock you down and urinate on you... come on hit that African American without a father with your punches.... Lets go!

:: ::

 

dsimon writes:

Yeah. Jones is about the worse type of opponent Tito could face. Its simply a question of how much the weight affects Tito's power. Hes a live dog as long as he can hit somoene.

 

dsimon writes:

In fairness to Mex

1) Cotto is very good and already can do more than Tito in the ring. Cotto is a devistating puncher. This opinion is not far fetched. IMO time will tell this one, its not absurd to imagine that Cotto could be better.

3) Everybody destroyed Joppy. The man became a professional opponent half way into his career, not something to guage much of anything by, although yes for what it is worth indeed, Joppy did fight the way he always does. :doh:

The rest I agree with D.

 

Tito's father is an idiot...Tito MIGHT look good vs. guys that will stand in front of him like Miranda, Abraham, Taylor, Pavlik.....but the cocksucker is behind Oscar's, Roy and Hopkins' asses, guys that will make him look bad :doh:

talk about bad management

 

With great management, Trinidad might still be undefeated. I do think that Tito wanted the challenges and for that :bears: :bears: :bears:

 

Jermaine would harm Tito's skilless arse, this fight is not fare.

 

Tito is becoming the new Mike Tyson of the meassage board. Guys will continue picking him over top fighters until he gets beat by a 168 pound version of Danny Williams:doh:

 

:eeeek:

 

Do you reckon Pavlik has a massive dong LOK?

 

your a sicky guy Mexi::

 

Probably because if someone wants his services, to lose, he wants to get paid Hopkins/DLH money to do it.

I'd rather see Trinidad fight lesser opponents because then at least the fights might be competitive.

 

lesser than delahoya? what such opponent exist for trinidad?