Felix Trinidad vs GGG 160lbs

The difference is that all the guys you mentioned ACTUALLY DID IT... Trinidad didn't ... He beat a piss-poor paper champ and then got his shit pushed in

 

Imagine if Duran never fought Carlos Palomino... Say he moves up, stops Monroe Brooks and then gets completely whitewashed by SRL, retires and then comes back a few years later at the same weight and accomplishes nothing noteworthy before getting whitewashed by say Marlon Starling and permanently retiring ... You'd be laughed at (justifiably so) if you then just decided "well, he beat Monroe Brooks... I think he would've killed Armando Muniz and Hedgemon Lewis (two of Jose Napoles better challengers, both way way better fighters than Monroe Brooks) because hey he was awesome at lightweight"

 

He also destroyed Cherifi, who was a very decent fighter. Let's rebember that he got RObbed against Reid, that was robbed by the welsh loser that is considered one of the best p4p fighter ever around here.

 

C'mon man, Cherifi was garbage and he was washed-up garbage when trinidad blasted him

Look who you're talking to! You know how much I despise calzaghe... I don't rate the guy at all

 

I think that our two biggests disprerancies is that first, I consider Antufuermo, Minter and Hamsho to be nothing special, and secondly, you seem to consider what he did at 154 completely irrelevant to his status as a mw.

Against a guy like Hagler, I give tito zero chances, but these guys were miles below Hagler, and they were hittable, and Tito never lost a fight when he could land easily.

 

Well, I think we can all agree that Trinidad would knock out Hedgemon Lewis. Fist bump on that.

 

History also shows that many, many fighters are far less effective when they step up in weightclass. Unless a fighter has a resume which allows people to judge which side of the line they fall on, there is no way of knowing which is which. With Tito, we have two fights. One he won well against a very, very average 'champ'. The other he got schooled.

All of the other stuff here is speculation.

MTF

 

Werd.

MTF ::

 

One possible outcome for sure... I could also see Tito losing a decision

 

The point is, Hopkins would have pushed in the shit of many a middleweight that came before him, make no mistake. You can't hold it against Tito that he had the misfortune of going up against an ATG middleweight.

 

Hagler would have beaten the shit outta Trinidad. Worse than Hopkins did. Nothing changes that.

 

You can only fault Hagler's opponents for losing to an ATG Middleweight :bears:

 

Speculation. Conjecture. No way of knowing. How many times, Xplosive, have to picked a guy to dominate another and when they fought you saw a completely different outcome. Happened many times on this site. So don't spew your opinions as if they are fact, Por favor. Certainly not in the presence of the Sly One. ;)

 

You seem to fault Joppy for losing to two ATG's. He beat everybody else he fought and had some decent wins. Why is he a total joke and fucking Vito Antuofermo and Alan Minter supposed to be superstar names on Haglers resume? They were all top fighters that ended up being also-rans, the only difference is Haglers era was deeper so the also-rans fought each other and somebody had to come away with a win. And they did it as contenders on prime time 80's tv where as Joppy won on obscure PPV undercards as a "champion". But they were the same level of fighter.

If Joppy fought in the late 70's and early 80's he'd fit in fine and win some and lose some to all these guys and maybe earn the right to get eaten by Hagler. You'd praise him as a scrappy old school fighter and pick him to out hustle and outbox Trinidad based on being a career middle in a deep era and I'd say you were crazy.

 

What decent wins did Joppy have?::

 

Vito was the undisputed middleweight champion of the world... Also-ran:bears:

 

His best wins are a very contentious win over Howard Eastman and beating a 147 year old Duran. That's it.

People in this thread embarrassing themselves in trying to misrepresent William fucking Joppy as some kind of good, solid world champion with a resume of decent wins.

William Joppy.

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If Joppy had fought in that era, you'd have never heard of him. He'd be no more than a stepping-stone type of fighter. He'd certainly be nowhere fucking near a world title. He was crap.

MTF

 

Exactly

you're talking to a guy only vaguely familiar with Rodrigo Valdez attempting nonetheless to debate the merits of that era

 

Vito had no special attributes to beat Trinidad.

He wasn't a huge puncher. He wasn't an extraordinary technician. He was hittable, and cut prone.

I think Trinidad's offensive arsenal would be too much for him.

 

He had no special attributes on paper to do anything he did ... But he did it by being fearless, tough, mean and awkward and dirty as hell

 

And none of those attributes are good enough to beat Tito.

 

Presumably you are basing this on his demolition of Joppy, because there is no other evidence to suggest that Tito was as effective at 160 than he was at 147.

MTF

 

Yeah, cause what he did at 154 is completely irrelevant to what he would do to a 160 pounders who's not even as big as the 154 guys he beat

 

It isn't completely irrelevant. It's just not as relevant as his fights at the weight in questions. Nowhere near as relevant, in fact.

MTF

 

What is your evidence of that? He beat everyone he fought when he was good except two of the best fighters of his generation, who beat his ass like Hagler beat up these guys. He was the 2nd best mw in the world and beat the guys put in front of him for a pretty long time.

But most importantly he was a career middle weight. You're not even arguing that these guys were really on Trinidad's level. You're saying they'd win just by virtue of being world class career mw's. Yet Trinidad smashing up the #2 mw who was a career middle is totally irrelevant?

 

The jap he won his title off was damn sure better than the guy Hopkins needed two tries to beat for his. Cherifi had wins over Reid who beat Ottke and gave Calzaghe a close fight and Holmes who was the 3rd best mw. He also beat Eastman who went on to give Hopkins a better fight than Tito or DLH and then arguably beat Arthur Abraham.

It's not a deep resume and he wasn't a great fighter at all but he was a legit world class guy and a good contemporary fighter. Tito didn't quite look as dynamic as at lower weights but he still bashed the guy up.

 

Cdogg, would you pick Syd Vanderpool, Antwon Echols, Robert Allen, green Glen Johnson, old JD Jackson or Joe Lipsey to beat Felix Trinidad? Are they also on a different level than Joppy?

 

Because the guys he fought and beat were absolutely fucking crap. It's all well and good saying 'he was unbeaten and he was a champ and he beat the guys in front of him' if the guys he beat were absolutely fucking terrible. Joppy's resume is off-the-charts terrible. Hopkins has a thin resume during his MW reign yet Joppy, a supposed champion of the same era, managed to somehow not fight and beat even the better names on Hopkins CV. Blokes like Echols, Holmes, Johnson, Allen.

I feel like I am repeating myself here but, once more - Joppy's best two wins are against a 147 year old Duran and a MD against Howards Eastman in a fight quite a few thought he'd lost. Joppy was shit. His reign was full of absolute garbagemen, his resume in totality is abysmal and he got his shit pushed in on the only two occasions he stepped up to fight live opposition. That's my evidence. Or 'facts', as they are better described.

MTF

 

Yes, Hopkins MW resume is fucking thin. Not as thin as that useless cunt Joppy, but thin.

MTF