Fighters who made the most of little talent

holyfield had a great amount of physical talent. is this a serious response?

 

Thats not true. Vargas had talent. He just got beat by 3 guys(Tito, DLH, Shane) who had considerably MORE talent than himself.

 

Yeah that was a tard thing to say. Holy in his prime had VERY quick hands, a formidable left hook, and excellent combination punching ability.

 

I think he accomplish what he did because he was lucky...mental midget Judah was the champion at the time...then he caught Gatti at the right moment....

had Cotto, Margarito, Williams, Mosley been the linear champion...Bumdomir would have never won it...and Mayweather would have never fought for the linear title....

 

I'm surprised no one said Steve Collins yet. Collins was pretty slow, with mediocre skill, and lack of a big punch... yet had success due to his strenth, conditioning, and chin.

 

Glen Johnson is my pick....

 

Much as I hate him, Juan Diaz belongs on here. Juan has done pretty good for himself in his career w/the limited talent he has. When I was watching him come up, I swore he'd never be more than a fringe contender. Bojado had like 5x the natural talent of Diaz, yet never amounted to shit.

 

I would probably say Mickey Ward & Gatti.

 

Considering he became an all-time great he was not that big a physical talent. What I mean is that guys like Tyson, Bowe, Pinklon Thomas etc. have had more talent than him and Holyfield became way better than them. So he is an over-achiever.

Of course he had more talent than John Ruiz, but he also did helluva lot more

 

Mayorga doesn´t fit at all. I don´t think he has little talent, and he certainly didn´t make the most of it.

 

Agreed. He had the tools to be a very good fighter: speed, power, chin and braveness were all there. He just didn't care to learn to box very much

 

1. Mayorga is not very talented
2. Becoming a unified world champion is a great achievement

You say you disagree with #1, #2 or both. Which is it?

 

But skill level is something that's developed, talent (if we're taking this to mean innate) isn't, and Manfredy has pretty darn good skills.

Again, I'm not really looking at this question - of making the most out of - to mean fights won and championships held, but more along the lines of, how developed were they as fighters...after starting from scratch, what kind of skill level and craft did they achieve.

Manfredy wasn't great, and he got blown out by guys who Mayweather and Corrales - who had exceptional innate abilities - but you can look at the way he took apart Ivan Robinson and see he had some real ability, and it wasn't because of great handspeed or quickness or reflexes or power.

 

He had talent and didn´t make the most of it.

 

First and foremost in my mind at least, Fearless Frankie Pendleton.
Jorge Paez.
Greg Haugen.
Julio Cesar Vasquez...he beat Winky Wright with 3 knockdowns if I recall correctly.
Gianfranco Rosi. This guy got stomped badly by Donald Curry, and then he won another belt and defended it 11 times before getting crunched by Vincent Pettway.
Vinny Pazienza. Just pure guts and attitude.
John Ruiz. The guy just won't go away. Longevity and persistence even though he's not particularly great at anything besides sticking to his guns.

 

Great point, I stand corrected. Idiot.

Really? Well please enlighten me as to what exactly his talent was?

 

Good points but I still think he under-achieved. "Got Jesus" pretty much killed the career of "El Diablo".

 

I think Ruiz wins this hands down.

I'd also add the group of little to no talent Heavweights that held any of the Alphabet Soup titles in the 80's, such as Coetzee, Page, Tubbs, Thomas, etc.


TFK

 

I think many would disagree and claim that these guys did have plenty of talent but they never did much with it

 

You're probably right. Some of those guys were very talented but pissed it away one way or another.

 

Ricky Hatton did pretty fucking well for a guy who's only real world class attribute was his footspeed...

MTF :dunno:

 

I cant believe this thread

RAY "BOOM BOOM" MANCINI

He had strength, absurd courage and a devotion to his father and THAT IS IT

Yet he was a Lightweight champ, he went to hell and back with Alexis Arguello, pushed around Jose Luis Ramirez, had two classic punchfests with Livingstone Bramble and ran over Bobby Chacon

I can think of no one who got more out of his ability

 

Vito Antuofermo. He was the Middleweight Champion of the World and a legit top contender for years at a time when there wasn't 1000 "champions" per division...despite giving up skill, speed and power advantages to nearly everyone he fought and having skin like tissue paper.

 

I'd say Mancini was more talented than most. His best attribute may have been his heart and will, but that doesn't mean he didn't win with talent too. I think his win over Ramirez is the best example of Mancini's talent. It's not like he had to gut it out - he very efficiently and somewhat easily out-pointed Ramirez.

 

Coetzee is 1 of the Best PURE Punchers to EVER Fight...His 1 Shot Power was ABSURD...Page, Tubbs & Thomas All had LOADS of Talent, they just All Lacked DISCIPLINE...



REED:hammert:

 

I think those 80s HW title-holders were far more talented than Ruiz.

Too many were just lazy drug abusers who squandered talent, while Ruiz (through one of the ugliest styles imaginable and the right connections) made the most of his talent.

Thomas was a skilled and talented guy, unforunately he was a heroin addict. Tubby had nice handspeed and some skills; six years after holding a title, he beat Bowe IMO.

I guess it's fitting that the most famous HW of the 80s was Tyson, another guy that squandered too much talent (but at least achieved a lot more before self-destructing).

 

vasily jirov may have not done much at cruiserweight but he gave james toney a pretty good beat down, even though the judges were blind during that fight. He just willed his way through opponents.

 

I have a pet rock that has more talent than Ruiz. He's my pick. I'll add John Duddy. Guy is a complete scrub.

Cupey

 

If anything, many of the fighters from the 1980's were the opposite of this topic.

There was plenty of talent amongst the Heavies of the 80's. Fighters like Page, Dokes, Tubbs, Thomas, Witherspoon were all talented but underachieved throughout most of their careers. It was frustrating to watch...each one would put together a good performance or two and look like they had it all figured out...and then went right back to being underachievers.

Page and Tubbs were almost always out of shape. Thomas was usually in shape, but his prior years of drug abuse contributed to his very short prime. Dokes liked the nightlife a little too much and Witherspoon was probably the most consistent of the bunch.

Coetzee could definitely bang and he wasn't a terrible boxer. He was usually in shape and came to fight, but he had confidence & stamina issues.

Gerry Cooney was another underachiever. He was a scary puncher, but he was protected and never developed properly by his management team. He never recovered emotionally from the Holmes loss.

There was plenty of talent in the 1980's, but unfortunately not anywhere enough dedication to the sport. And coming on the heels of the great 70's heavy division...the 80's crop of heavies looked even worse in comparision.

 

Spot on!

Talent was the one thing that many of the "Lost Generation" had in spades!

It was DESIRE, WORK ETHIC, CONSISTENCY that they lacked