Froch-Abraham starting time AKA SPOILER THREAD

::

dr hi-shaw

 

Someone who follows boxing as closely as you do know obviously knows the difference between power and strength. You haven't expressed yourself well.

I agree with salaco, Frock's size obviously played a role, but you specifying physical strength makes it sound like a physical fight, with a lot of infighting, grappling etc.

That's simply not the case.

Frock's size played a role in reach, power and chin more than strength.

His reach allowed him to control Arabham with relative ease, his size enabled him to take the odd Arabham wild hook no problem, and his punches obviously carried a weight that Arabham wasn't used to, he was hurting Arabham a bit even with partially blocked blows.

He was clearly the bigger, more naturally powerful man in there.

But again, there's a massive difference between strength and power. For example, Hatton probably has the edge in physical strength over Manny, but Manny obviously hits much harder.

 

Calzaghe W12 Kessler
Froch L12 Kessler.
__________________-
:scratcher:

 

That is about the only remaining argument in Joe's favour...

MTF

 

Strength, size, power here were all at play and effectively amounted to the one and the same factor here - Froch's ability to dictate centre ring, push Abraham's onto the back foot and stop him walking him down. That depended on Abraham's respect for his power/strength/size. You're arguing for the sake of it.

And for the record, Strength doesn't just come into play in clinches and wrestling matches. You try hitting an extremely strong guy on the gloves or shoulders. See what happens. He'll walk you down. His strength relative to yours matters before he even touches you.

 

Brad Van Pelt was a 6'5" Linebacker who weighed 220lbs and was hard to tackle. You know why? Not cos he was so strong, 220 is fuck all, .....but because he was all arms and elbows and knees. Froch, to Taylor, was the same. He simply couldn't come to grips with him.

It's like getting tangled up in a net.

Froch was pushing him off, smothering the few shots he threw and keeping him at range.

That's physicality.

When Abraham tried to engage Froch would lean back or throw his arms up like an umbrella and frustrate Abrahams attack.

 

hopkins win was impressive just because hopkins is a fucking hard guy to beat.

i always though calzaghe would slap the shit out of froch, im still 70% sure he would have, but it decreases all the time.

 

Yeah that and the fact that Ward butted Kesslers face into a collection of small vaginas before he got around to facing and beating Froch in Denmark.

 

Calzaghe was too quick-handed for Froch, would have beaten him by clear decision but the fact that Froch is close to making a case for comparative achievemnt in such a short time says a lot about Joe's lousy quantity/quality ratio...Joe gets the edge due to Hopkins

 

Me too and I still do because, so far as I can see, it would have been a horrible style mismatch in Calzaghe's favour. In short, I still don't doubt for a moment that Calzaghe was a better fighter.

But a better 168lb career overall? Not for me, at least not any more.

MTF

 

It shouldn't. There is nobody Froch has beaten that we wouldn't make Calzaghe the favourite over. For openers........he beat Kessler, which Carl couldn't, and Taylor/Abraham were both former 160lbrs with recent losses under their belt at the time Carl fought them. In fact, Abraham was coming off a loss and Taylor was coming off a brace of them, interrupted, I believe, only by a win over Lacy. Yet people moan about Eubank?:blackcloud:

Look at what Eubank went on to after the loss to Calzaghe and compare that to what Taylor added up to after his loss to Froch. What's Abraham going to do? Move up to 190 and try to beat Steve Cunninham?

 

For the record, I don't even think Kessler beat Froch. I scored that fight 114-114 at the time and again after rewatching a handful of times. Kessler won because he was at home; nothing new or especially controversial in that of course but I thought that fight a draw.

MTF

 

Taylor's only losses were to Pavlik prior to his losing to Froch. Froch gets extra credit in that fight because he went to Taylor's hometown (which Joe never did) and knocked him out when the judges were all ready to stiff him on the cards. And for the record, I'd have bet plenty of money that Taylor would have started a betting favourite against Calzaghe if they had fought- FFS, Jeff Lacy did!

Pascal was unbeaten when Froch beat him and Froch remains the only man to beat the guy who just chinned the consensus LHW champ. I notice you left him off your little list there...:nono:

Calzaghe beat Kessler at home. Froch went to Denmark to fight Kessler and IMHO deserved a draw. No shame at all there. How would Calzaghe fared in Denmark instead of with 50,000 screaming sheep-shaggers cheering him on? Since Joe never took that kind of risk until very late in the day, we'll never know.

Calzaghe's best wins (in 45-ish fights):

Hopkins, Lacy, Kessler, Eubank (very old)

Froch's best wins (in 27 fights):

Taylor, Abraham, Dirrell, Pascal

MTF :egypt:

 

Hut, I've boxed as an amateur and sparred with former world class fighters. As far as I know, you haven't.

And strength can be apparent in the ring without the guy hitting you, I agree, but not how you describe. That's size.

A good friend of mine was an amateur heavyweight. I've sparred him, and I've also sparred some 6'5 heavyweight randomly who I don't know.

You're far more inclined to flee against a bigger foe, even if he isn't hitting you, but it's actually the sheer mass that you notice when hitting someone, not strength.

Hitting a heavyweight feels like hitting a wall compared to punching a featherweight or lightweight. That's not physical strength, it's weight/size.

 

There are still 2 middleweights on Froch's dance card. Two. And one of them had a win over the other middleweight on Frochs dance card, which is kind of a circuitous way of making oneself look good.

Who cares why Froch ended up in America or who was ready to stiff him on the cards. That has very little to do with anything. Sure, Taylor had only lost twice before, one of them was a brutal KO to Pavlik and then he lost to Pavlik again at 166 which, considering Pavliks utter uselessness at 1 Oz. north of 160, is telling indeed.

Furthermore...the stupidity of the maxboxing-esque scribes of this world in installing Lacy as favourite should not be used to disparage Joe in any regard. They got that one badly wrong.

Oh, and it's Pork in Denmark, not Sheep. That's Wales!

 

Breaking News.

Abraham has announced another nickname change. From now on he wants to be known as "Smurf Jeff" or "White Lacy".

 

ElTerriblee, apologies, I got you confused with Xplosive.

This is one of the threads I'm thinking of.

http://www.fightbeat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33244&page=11

You say something that sort of hints at Arabham winning, but then Xplosive takes over the conversation and I'm arguing with him.

Incidentally, this fight does actually remind me a bit of Calzaghe vs Lacy in quite how inept Arabham looks.

 

Froch is a versatile fighter,he's just not pretty doing it but it works for him.He fought at worst on even terms with the best at 168.Say what you want but Froch is good.

 

Time for your Geritol, Mr Shirt.ld:ld:

 

sounds like the euro middleweight match isnt worth watching. good to know in advance so i can skip to the real fights.

 

No problem. The writting was on the wall for a while. As a fan you still hope that he can turn it around, but it´s fairly obvious that Abraham is on the decline for a while now. He has regressed as a fighter for various reason imho.

1. Psychological damage from the Miranda I fight, with his priority on not getting hit cleanly to the head.

2. This results in him just playing offense or defense.

3. This leads to the next problem, his feet are just too slow for that kind of style. Froch is there to be hit, but you have to punch with him, which he doesn´t.

4. His conditioning sucks. He moved up to 168, but he still has no stamina even without throwing punches, which leads me to believe they train him wrong.

5. His coach can only teach the Eastern European straight up jab, stick and move style, that doesn´t suit Abraham at all. And he was so awful in the corner today. After the first round you could already see that Abraham was uncomfortable and he started to bash him. By round seven he called him a gutless bitch.

6. In a weird way I also think the Smurf entrance helped to keep him relaxed, while the "King" moniker only inccreased the pressure on him.

Now Abraham is stuck between a rock and a hard place. 168 pounders are too big and rangy, but he likely cannot make 160 anymore.

 

Sorry man, but if you think AA doesn't suck at this level, you have no idea what you're looking at.

 

El, one thing that honestly seems bizarre for a fighter of this level and experience is his stamina.

Getting gassed with that low a workrate is insane.

It's either not training much and partying a lot, or just naturally bad stamina.

Some fighters have naturally freakish stamina like Duran and Pacquiao, and some fighters just have crap stamina even if they train hard, like Oscar for example.

 

You just don't understand the subtleties of standing there and doing nothing. :nono:

 

Who?

 

No he just posts here the odd time, but he's not actually a fighter.

 

:giggle::shit::scratcher:

Go back to your pornography, or I'll hit you and you'll stay plastered.opcorn:

 

You really should have put money on it. Froch was the underdog even. Must have been hella value for you...

 

why did u bold and scratch your head at the "you're"

 

I think it's the anthem.

MWS hear's the anthem of Germany and he has visions of.........THIS



Press ESC to EXIT the World Cup.