Great or very good?

At the end of the day, its a moot point. A young Leonard would have smashed Norris inside of 6 rounds.

But to me at least its quite clear that Norris was better than Hatton.

 

I agree with all of that, but I admit I have bias on this front as I always hated Hatton

I hate to admit it but I do think the Hatton-Tszyu vs Norris-Leonard argument has merit though. I do think Tszyu had a lot more left. Saying that I agree with you that Norris was much better than Hatton.

 

Froch didn't unify because he fought at the same time as one of the best two or three fighters ever at the weight (I know 168 is a 'new' division, but whatever). He fought that guy and lost (the narrative that he got schooled is based on the first seven rounds and not the whole fight, too) and then fought every other guy and won (or lost then won). His resume is miles better than Tszyu.

MTF

 

Froch wasn't as good as Tzysu, but it's arguable he achieved more.

 

It depends on how you define 'good', but on the basis that I habitually describe him as the 'fighting farmer' on the basis of what looks like a complete lack of technique or skill on his part, aye, that's not a terrible summary.

MTF

 

On the Hatton/Norris debate. Norris was clearly more talented but Hatton might have been marginally 'better'. Prime Hatton, seen largely only by UK fans who had the displeasure of watching him waste his peak years being protected in Manchester by Frunk, was a very skilled fighter with extremely fast feet and exceptional body punching. By the time he got to Tszyu, which many (Frunk included) thought was a cash-out fight, he was already past his best. You can't maintain a peak into your later years if you live the life that Fatton likes to live. To keep going, he turned into a completely different fighter. It was effective but awful to watch. That 'hit and hold' version is the one that most people remember. It wasn't actually anything like the best version of him.

MTF

 

Nah, that's just excuse. Hatton started holding and hitting because his comp improved, not because he declined.

Want proof? He was holding and hitting against Ben Tackie, several years BEFORE the Tszyu fight.

Hatton held and hit because he lacked skill. He was very much at his peak when he fought Tszyu - he was 26 years old, and had incurred ZERO damage whatsoever before the Tszyu fight. Yeah, his lifestyle was shit, but you can largely get away with that in your mid 20s.

 

Hatton always hit and held, but he did not lack skill

 

Defensively, he did. I wasn't implying that he was crude offensively.

He held on because he had no clue whatsoever how to avoid punches.

But the point still stands that he was in his prime when he fought Tszyu. He had been in zero grueling fights, and he was in his mid 20s.

Hatton was in his prime up until the Floyd fight. Following that beating, yeah, he wasn't the same.

 

Hatton himself thinks his best performance was Kostya Tsyzu, for whatever it's worth.

He had definitely been in grueling fights, though.

 

Which ones?

Hatton had barely dropped any rounds before the Tszyu fight. A few here and there, but he was mostly dominant over mediocre comp before the Tszyu fight.

He had a terrible reputation going into the Tszyu fight. We all thought of him as the most protected fighter in the sport. He hadn't been challenged by anyone.

Tackie and Magee probably pushed him the hardest, but even those two didn't win many rounds.

Vince Philips cut him, and at one point wobbled him, but still, Philips lost like 10 or 11 rounds.

 

Losing rounds doesn't equate not taking much punishment. Hatton ate a lot of leather against Philips, Olivera, Tackie and Magee.

 

Actually, I will kinda concede one thing - I felt Hatton moved his head better in his early 20s than he did by time he fought Floyd. Because I remember thinking in his early Showtime appearances that he had decent head movement for an attacking fighter.

Granted, we aren't talking about Tyson-level head movement here, but it was okay.

 

Hatton had the feet and workrate to trouble Floyd, but not the skill.

 

Of course it was his best performance. It was his career defining performance. What was he before that fight: a five to one underdog? No-one thinks it wasn't his career defining effort.

But that is the very point. He very sensibly realised that the best way to fight Tszyu was to quickly close down the space for Kostya to land the left hands that laid Judah and Mitchell to pieces. And it worked, beautifully. And from that point on he did it, constantly. He became an effective eyesore. It worked against anyone who wasn't an ATG.

MTF

 

I don't even think it was an eyesore, I love watching Hatton.

 

Hatton also closed the distance on Tszyu so effectively because Tszyu was nowhere near as quick and explosive as he was 5-6 years prior.

 

Plenty of things worked in Hatton's favor. Younger, huge partisan crowd and a referee that lets say was a bit more sympathetic to Ricky than Kostya. With all of that i still believe Hatton brought a kind of fight to Tszyu that he was very uncomfortable with. While Tszyu was physically strong he looked for the ref to break up clinches and had little answers for infighting.

 

Hatton was being rude to him.

 

Very

 

hatton was tedious as hell for me to watch.

 

Yeah, Hatton really wasn't enjoyable at all to watch.

The Urango fight, for example, was horrible.