Heavyweight Scene - 90's & 70's...Champions!

You're right, but it wouldn't take Foreman's best punch to equal McCall's fight-ending shot. It wouldn't take Foreman best punch to equal Rahman's fight-ending shot, either.

 

Yes he is.

Holmes was great..but consider the styles. Holmes tended to beat people with reach and jab. Bowe edges him in reach and matches him in jab. Bowe equals him in stamina, beats him in power, and although Holmes was a sharp puncher he wasn't a devastating one and therefore difficult to see him stopping Bowe.

Bowe aint no Gerry Cooney my friend....

 

I never compared Bowe to Cooney, but Holmes still takes this. Bowe does NOT match Holmes in jab. Larry, very simply had the best jab in heavyweight history. His jab was quicker, more consistent, and more educated than Riddick's. Furthermore, Holmes is not Holy. He wouldnt be standing in front of Riddick exchanging with him. He'd be using those great legs he had and circling Bowe, fighting him when he had to. And Holmes hit more than hard enough to not only get Bowe's attention, but to HURT him. Bowe's chin was far from granite, and Larry's power was extremely underrated.

Above all though, the main thing that decides this fight is brains. Holmes was FAR and AWAY a smarter fighter than Bowe, and Larry simply found ways to win. I'm not saying Bowe wouldnt be competitive, but I can only see him winning by KO. And I cant envision Bowe having the power to stop Holmes. And he DAMN SURE wouldnt outbox him. Holmes takes it 10-5, or 9-6 in rounds.

 

Never. And I hate Riddick Bowe and always rooted against him.

But you are underrating Bowe here. To pick Bowe is not a knock on Larry Holmes at all..Bowe was an extrememly talented heavyweight. Eddie Futch, who trained them both, says bowe is better.


Now that's not to say that Eddie Futch is the absolute authority on everything boxing, but it goes to show that saying that Bowe is better than Holmes isn't a stretch.

Holmes' best opponent was Norton (and Norton was aproaching the end of his career)..and that fight ended in a split decision. His next best opponent was Witherspoon and that ended in a semi-controversial split decision.

Holmes had never proven to have beaten anyone as good as Riddick, espcially not with that SIZE combined with the skills.

Riddick, however, had beaten a prime Holyfield.

Holmes jab vs Bowe's jab...a WASH. Holmes' was perhaps a little more "educated" but Bowe's was definitely HARDER and at least as long. Stamina...a wash too. Riddick had GREAT stamina (evidenced in his first fight with Evander).

Bowe defintely has the power to stop Holmes. I don't think he would have stopped Holmes, but he has the power to as Larry was hurt badly by both Shavers and Snipes. Bowe had very heavy hands.

 

Strong contentions on both sides, for the most part. I tend to think Holmes beating Bowe is the more likely scenario, but I think the chances of a Bowe victory are considerable.

 

Bowe would knock Larry out.

 

And then he would wake up and apologize to Larry.

 

Let's not revise history,...Bonecrusher Smith and especially Carl Williams did not face a prime Holmes.

 

Not trying to. Holmes was not at his sharpest anymore but I still think those fights tell us something about the styles that gave him trouble

 

It's certainly not out of the question that Bowe beats Holmes, Larry would be favourite but not by much.

 

yeah. cause Bowe wasn't, "on the same level," as Holmes.

 

Bowe's best shot would be to line up quietly amongst the contenders Holmes dispatched during the early 1980's. I can see how Holmes would get just a touch complacent, dispatching Berbick, Spinks, & Snipes in order --- them, bam! A young Bowe might catch him off-guard & best him.

 

But ask yourself this:

Which one of Holmes' challengers would have fared any better against Bowe?

Tim Witherspoon would have been his toughest fight probably, but I think Bowe would have KOed Cooney earlier, made short work of Shavers, beaten Berbick, Spinks, Marvis Frazier, Cobb, Smith, Snipes and old faded Ali same speed.

Larry Holmes didn't exactly fight the Frazier's, Foreman's, Liston's of the world. We mustn't forget that.

Great fighter, yes, but was he really better than the exceptionally talented Riddick Bowe?

 

And when did I say that or anything like it. Sounds like you are ASSUMING. I'm not the one making ridiculous statements like Bowe knocks Holmes out.

 

So Holmes wasn't prime in those fights now?? If you claim that Holmes was prime in those fights, you are indeed revising history.

And I just don't agree. The Holmes of the last 2 or so years of his title reign had slipped dramatically from the fighter who beat Norton in 1978. Against Williams and Smith...Holmes had none of the quickness, reflexes and ring movement that he had against Norton.

 

Yes, I made a mistake claiming Holmes was in his prime. I should have said "while Holmes reigned" or something of those lines.

Anyways, considering how well Norton did against Holmes too, I certainly can see also Bowe giving him trouble. I am not sure if the alleged hand problem hurt Holmes' performance in that fight though

 

I don't disagree that Holmes-Bowe is a good fight. I certainly don't think Bowe is an easy fight for Holmes (or pretty much any heavy ever for that matter), I actually think it would be a good fight, but with Holmes' better skills and smarts giving him the advantage. I see Holmes by a pretty close decision, but not one that would be disputed by anyone other than Rock Newman.

It's easy to look at Bowe-Holyfield I and think it's evidence for Bowe, but I disagree, there's no way Holmes would play into Bowe's hands by slugging it out with him like Holyfield did. It's a great win for Bowe and it looks good on his resume, but it doesn't really shed any light on how a fight with Holmes would look, because Holmes wouldn't be there right in front of Bowe to be hit.

 

Dude...please just consider the styles. Don't consider that Larry Holmes is an all time great and Bowe hasn't reached that status. Consider the styles.

Bowe is 6'5", with a GREAT JAB. great! Harder hitter than Larry, I think a longer reach...better infighter. Harder right cross. Equal stamina. Arguably a better comination puncher. Arguably as strong a chin.

Bowe isn't a slugger either...he's a boxer puncher. bowe had good boxing skills. Was outboxing Lennox Lewis in the Olympics before the stoppage for example.

Larry who usually had a height advantage and always had a jab advantage doesn't not have these in this fight (jabs are at least equal).

Bowe is MUCH better than guys like Cooney, Shavers, Spinks and Berbick. MUCH Better.

 

And Holmes was MUCH better than Holy(yes, Holy), Larry Donald, Herbie Hide, and Jorge Luis Gonzalez.

Bowe would NOT win the jabbing battle with Holmes. Larry's jab was quicker, more consistent, and would get there first. Plus you're underrating the aspect of BRAINS. Bowe was talented as all hell, but he wasnt a particularly smart fighter. That matters vs a masterful technician like Holmes.

 

Negative.

If Holmes was better than Holy..it wasn't by much.

Sure...(I'm anticipating that..) you would probably point to an old Larry Holmes going the distance with a prime Evander...suggesting that a young Larry easily beats him.


Well (just in case you're going to say that) It doesn't necessarily work that way.

I place Larry and Evander on the same level actually.

Evander's handspeed, workrate, chin and combination punches...negate Larry's jab, snappy power and overall boxing skills IMO. Heart, stamina is a wash.

Evander would have also beaten all of a Prime Holmes' opponents IMO.

Secondly...Larry doesn't outjab Bowe..in a contest of jabs. No way no how. They are even in that category. Bowe has arguably the best jab in Heavyweight history...just like Larry (and Ali, Liston and Louis).

What makes you think that Bowe wasn't smart? His fights with Golota?

 

Holmes is over-rated by many, in contrast to his, "under-rated" claims, but the best of him was plainly better than Holyfield, for mine. I think Bowe runs him close, but I don't see how he wins a jabbing battle. He had a great left, but it had none of the consistency of Holmes'. Of course, Bowe possesses several attributes Holmes dislikes. A good, long jab, a big right hand (Holmes' bogey shot), & terrific in-fighting skills. All that on a big man is going to tell. Holmes is probably a lot smarter in there, & a good bit quicker, with a few more aces in the hole than Bowe.

It's a difficult fight --- I have no doubt. I could see Bowe winning perhaps one of four or five fights, or getting Holmes if the latter came in complacent. I have to think, best-for-best, Holmes is gonna find a way. As I said, I consider him over-rated by some, but he was doubtless a true ring legend, who could've bested many of the division greats.