How can anyone defend David Haye after this?

They are entitled to their opinions, as is Pascal.

Haye is going to wait to fight them, now is not the time as Haye/Golden Boy Productions are going to build that fight up for at least another year or more and it will be the biggest heavyweight fight since Lewis-Tyson.

 

nice

 

Damn the legend of the bitch keeps growing....

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/boxing/article7146391.ece

So after he sees that Wlad rejects blood testing from Povetkin, suddenly Haye decides all his fights from here on out will require blood tests?

*head bangs on keyboard*

To think I once believed this motherfucker wanted to fight Wlad.

I love the brutal honesty in Adam Booth's quote here though in regards to the rumored fight between Haye and Audley Harrison. Props for this:

 

That is a fucking ridiculous statement of Lewis-Tyson like proportions. Firstly I'm not saying for certain Haye is afraid, but I do lean towards him being afraid than not.

The biggest issue here is how in the fuck can they make this a bigger fight a year from now then they could right now? Showing Wlad peck his way to safe decisions hasn't exactly set the HW world on fire and Haye has cooled off severly action wise since he moved up to HW.

Like I say I think feeling HW's power has cooled Haye's desire to taste bigger stronger HW power, in essence the Klits.

 

Well, I've already unloaded enough Haye hate,... what is really satisfying about all this is that, the one's who are burnt the most, are the ones with desperate JJ jeffries syndrome, drawn from sinister, conservative inhibitions, those kinds, plus the British flag wavers who will support a dictatorship to the bitter end. I've got to say though,.. I've no problem with him asking for random blood tests,.. Wlad has already acted suspiciously on the question,.. now that Haye, has proposed it,.. it really gets driven on home here,..:crafty: ,..spotlight time,....... knowing full well how much he wants the fight, ....if Wlad 'backs off' because of random drug testing,... he can consider himself the second fighter exposed as a performance enhancing cheat,.. with many more to come, many many more if this clause continues to grow, yes, Haye has no interest in cleaning up the sport, but it doesn't matter, as it didn't matter with Fraud, the precedental ethics card, is to be viewed on it's own merit.

 

Complete and utter rubbish (to speak British-ese for a sec).

How has Wlad already acted suspiciously? by essentially telling Povetkin to shove his tests up his ass? Or is this the big bad russian thing? Did you watch Rocky 4 tonight or something?

 

Have you been living under a rock?
Haven't you heard the chorus?:
"YES!"
-What more do you want?

 

It's completely ridiculous that's why I say that. I don't know if you're joking and are pointing out that ridiculousness or not, but it is.

We've gotten to a point in our society that says you have to prove your innocence, not someone else prove your guilt.

Floyd can huff and puff and whine and bitch all he wants about how he thinks that Manny's on something. If he doesn't have PROOF beyond "well he started out at this weight and now he's at this weight" then he can and should be told to fuck off.

Povetkin/Haye can talk all they want along with Floyd about "Cleaning up the sport" however in EVERY SINGLE CASE so far of a fighter mandating his opponents take blood tests it has been for suspect reasons.

Floyd's got a lotta beef with Manny, as does G and Floyd's daddy.

Povetkin's trying to put off a fight with Wlad because even Teddy Atlas has said he's not ready.

Haye as we all know is running and tucking tail from fighting them, and he comes out with this AFTER Wlad rejects Povetkin's demand.

At least with Floyd you can say he's in a position to demand shit, even though I don't think this is one of those things he should be able to demand.

As I said we've gotten to the point in our society where simply accusing someone of something is grounds for 100% guilty verdicts.

What the fuck? Seriously.

The idea of innocence until proven guilty and the idea that your accusers bear the "burden of proof", meaning THEY have to prove you are guilty, not you having to prove you're not.

Everyone that talks this shit about how Manny or Wlad or anyone else should have to capitulate to the demands of some punk ass prima donna is pathetic and contributing to how fucked up our system is.

 

One must emphasize,.. if you were a genuinely clean fighter, ontop of your livelyhood, reiping the richest benefits, how could you possibly, have a problem, with a clause, that protects you yourself from supercharged drug felons? Given the Klitschko's have demonstrated a firm understanding of the philosophical systematics of politics, and in charitable humanitarian work, they would be easily aware, of corruption that is degenerative and rife within the sport they apparently cherish. So,.. if Wlad bucks up like a spooked stallion, and instantly withdraws from negotiations with Haye over drug-testing, and simultaneously refuses to fight Povetkin due to drug testing, they are the actions of somebody who relies heavily on enhancements to suceed in the ring. I don't appear to want to protect, nor propergate a flimsey ulterior argument in favor of an avenue that pampers supernaturally enhanced cheats, the current Klitschko argument, is that the obsolete and ridiculed drug testing apparatus administered by the IBF,..... is just as competant as the World Anti-doping agencies stringent random blood scannings. This should be recieved as outrageously stupid, 'outrageous', given the deliberate nature of what they know is to be an outright lie.

As for the, 'big bad russian / rocky 4' quip,.. you've again fallen into the 'overly assuming' new poster trap,.. I think the dislike of the Klitschko's based primarily to thier skin and eastern european roots is fucking disgusting, a very odd complex where most of the culprits happen to be white themselves. I've made this known here, .....for years, and as expected, been accused of being a racist for defending them , which actually reveals part of this complex that so many white boxing fans have bottled up.

 

Relax bud- Pascal was being sarcastic.

Oh, and prepare yourself for a raft of posts about how this isn't a Court of Law (although the Court of Arbitration for Sport is, of course) and that the presumption of innocence is negated in sport and other such stuff. Hell, I'm a lawyer, and even I got tired of trying to make the point you are trying to make...

MTF :bangh:

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on the whole "prove you're NOT guilty by doing whatever we ask" tactics.

As for the dislike of the Klitschkos, I'm not making any judgements or casting any aspersions on you personally.

I don't know you so I'm not going to label you as being against them based on any reason or whatnot.

There are MANY people who seem to dislike them simply because they have the belts, are dominant and are not American. I agree with you that it IS disgusting.

The funny thing is I'm not REALLY a huge fan of theirs. I recognize their dominance and respect that they have a gameplan and follow it to devastating (if boring at times) success.

I just think the whole "prove to me you're NOT guilty" just doesn't wash and it offends me that so many people are perfectly willing to dictate that someone else agree to things based on what we say we would do.

"I would never turn down 40 million dollars for a drug test"

Yeah? Well guess what? IT'S NOT YOU! (note: not referring to YOU). Manny is not in our situation and we are not in his. 40 million dollars, while a helluva lot of money, is not the same to Manny as it would be to joe schmoe.

And while that would be a helluva payday, if Manny rejects the deal on principle, and walks away from that money, what happened to the idea of saying "wow, that guy stands up for what he believes in and won't let someone dictate shit just because he's got a bug up his ass over me?" instead we're all "fuck that guy, he's guilty!"

I'm not saying Manny's clean or not clean. I don't know. None of us know. Only God and Manny know for sure whether or not he's clean or dirty.

But until NSAC or whoever decides to make blood tests mandatory (and for the record I think they SHOULD, just not because Floyd cries and demands it) then Manny should be perfectly content to sit back and tell Floyd to go fuck himself.

He shouldn't HAVE to defend his accomplishments because aside from some bitch ass fighters who have beef with him, there has never been an accusation against Manny. No tests failed, no reason to suspect him except on the flimsiest "evidence".

And I don't like Manny or Floyd. so this isn't a "fanboy/homer/hater" type situation with me. I just don't like people who think they are bigger than the sport.

Just like Floyd shouldn't be dictating this shit, Manny shouldn't be dictating catch weights and 10 million per pound overweight shit that's against NSAC (supposed to be 10% of your purse MAX).

 

Given your noted political persuasion,.. I'm happy to hear you are not quite a lawyer of the 'ambulance chasing' variety,.. unlike the evil Irishman,..:crafty:

 

It may seem strange, but I have honestly found some of the posts/ posters around here in the last few months highly entertaining, for all sorts of reasons.

And I think we'll see a bit more wriggling yet.

It will be interesting to see how this period of FB is viewed in a year or two.

 

And also I would like to say that while Manny has given many different reasons for not wanting to do it, I firmly believe that at the top of the list and the true sincere reason is for what I said, Floyd should not be able to dictate shit merely because he's got a bug up his ass about Manny. This has nothing to do with "cleaning up the sport" because Floyd's been on record as saying that he's bigger than the sport and the sport is nothing once he leaves.

That's not the words of someone who cares about the sport. He's a liar, flat out, plain and simple. He's lied about so much bullshit in the past, that why should we believe him now?

As I said I don't take sides as far as whether or not I think he's clean or not. That's not my call. I simply believe that at the end of the day he's not going to let Floyd dictate shit based on Floyd's desire to spread lies and misinformation simply to hype up a hypothetical fight.

 

I respect your opinion on all fronts,.. but, do you feel it is an injustice when some athletes under the Wada testing protocol are punished for refusing to be tested?.. You've indicated that you are not against the idea of stringent sophisticated testing, well now it's possible to implement it, as quick as it was for Arum to come to an agreement with the Texas commission to take all drug testing away. Stronger drug testing, would have been taking place in Floyd vs Pacquiao, wether the commission sides with promoters harbouring drug suspects or not, has no effect on the actual testing program, it would have been a step in the right direction, in the sports biggest fight, to demonstrate and gain influence amongst the people who are directly effected by possible cheats, the fighters. Wether they were clean before they introduced the idea of mutual testing I don't know,.. but this sustaining precedent from now on, will go some way to guaranteeing that they, and thier opponent, are clean on the night of the fight, and I can't see how that is a bad thing. I figure most would not have had an issue what so ever with stronger drug testing into boxing, maybe even would have embraced it,... but as soon as Pacquiao, a popular hero, entered the equation, and said 'NO!!!!' .. we are now all divided.

 

If this were the case why is Manny constantly trying to negotiate the testing days rather than just going with a resounding flat out no?

 

I am all for it as long as an individual athlete is not mandating it for anyone he fights (and under suspect reasoning), when it is not mandated by the sanctioning organization such as NSAC.

I don't feel bad about those who refuse to take tests and are penalized such as in the Olympics, because they knew all along that's how they were going to be doing things when they first got involved in their amateur sports.

Now, if NSAC and the NY bodies and Cali bodies all made this mandatory on the 1st of 2011, the first person to reject it can take it to court if they'd like, but in the meantime, they can't fight.

I'm a believer in going by what the rules of the authority says. You don't like those rules, you can challenge them, but while you're challenging them you have to live by them or face the consequences.

Floyd is not the sanctioning bodies. David Haye is not the sanctioning bodies. Fucking Povetkin is not a sanctioning body and as such none of those three should have the power to dictate anything. Just as Manny should not be dictating these catch weights and 10 mil per pound over the limit.

And to be clear and leave no doubt here, I am in favor of the powers that be making blood testing FOR EVERYONE (main events, undercards, un televised bouts, club fights, etc) mandatory.

Hell, you can do like I saw someone on another board suggest, and say that whoever wants the blood tests has to pay for the testing.

Or say the powers that be pick up the tab, but if a fighter tests dirty, his side has to pay 100% of the costs of testing both fighters.

If they both test dirty, they split the cost, along with whatever suspensions are applicable.

But don't have a precedent set where individual athletes can demand that certain fighters have to take them, when it's not universal.

If Floyd's wanting to keep the sport clean, where was his demands that everyone on his undercards get blood tested? Does that not help the sport?

Bottom line is this: If Floyd mandated that all fighters got tested, would that be a good thing? Would it have a positive outlook overtime? Of course.

But does that mean that Floyd should have the ability to make policy? No. not just no but HELL no.

 

I think he SHOULD just give a flat out no, and say "fight me bitch, or shut the fuck up and go fight Matthew Hatton on your 'world tour'"

But he keeps coming up with various reasons. Also I'm not 100% that that's all coming from Manny. Not trying to make excuses because I've ripped him on various things, but am I the only one that doesn't have a hard time believing that Manny could very well not have any clue what some of the shit being said is? . I can picture him in the Phillipines, not even paying attention, and all this shit is from Arum or Manny's people.

Manny just figuring everyone's taking care of shit for him.

Maybe that's not accurate, but I just can't shake that feeling.

 

Wlad is really starting to look like the German steriod freak we all knew he was..

 

They badly want the money that the fight would generate,.. however, they're not willing to take the risk of Manny fighting without his secret sauces, indicating that there must be, and evidently is, looking at his fights, a big difference between Manny on drugs, and Manny off them, a sudden change in his capabilities, and a bad lopsided loss, will arouse further suspicion, and ruin future revenue for all concerned, and would devistate Pedquiao personally and his millions of hysterical fans, we know from his baffling post-loss excuses that he doesn't take losing very well.

 

Fraud has no integrity, he's not motivated to do this to clean up boxing, only blind groupies could ever attempt to argue otherwise given Fraud's history.

The commission and sanctioning bodies having any integrity though, is false,.. for you see, most of us are rightfully sickenned by the capitalism of sanctioning bodies and these commissions who operate under a 'private enterprise' deliberately far away from proper regulation, and they work with promoters, they're part of the business. As I said before, the Texas commission, in all thier glory, decided to remove drug-testing all together for Manny Pacquiao's last fight, the Nevada commission, refuses to implement stronger testing into boxing, they wont have it, they too badly want some of the revenue of a Pacquiao / Floyd fight, it's why they performed the public stunt of an announced urine test for Floyd and Manny, in an attempt to control the damage, and published the results that they're both clean 'and ready to re-negotiate please Floyd the pressure is on you now',.. at first, Kizer begrudgingly ignored the updates of the USADA testing sent to the commission claiming "We already tested Floyd, we dont need this system, we're satisfied" .. each update wasn't made public, all the information went through to the commission,........ but one thing was interesting,.. the commission made it known, to all, that the last blood test Floyd and Shane had was 18 days out before the fight, (which I wasn't pleased to hear, using a psychological detterent as the only defence in those last few weeks) ,.. but how convenient for the commission to release that information, as if to aid the pressure for Arum, on Floyd, to accept a compromise in drug testing...yet,..they withold information about Oscar De La Hoya's past drug tests, once again, while closely working with Arum... So, I think it's actually better in the hands of the fighters, who are in the firing line of drug induced punches, to go through a neutral agency, because the commission, clearly takes sides, makes deals, and contradicts thier own rules to benefit certain fighters and promoters. We can have the drug testing you fully endorse, without the worthless consent of the commissionS.

 

like Kaki said

if you are clean you don't care about drug tests..

Wlad and Vit have been in sports forever and they are educated rich germans with access to all the drugs in the world

i hope these cheats are found out!!

 

I agree with Karl that Haye deserves more than 50-50.

Here's why.

There is no heavyweight champion at the moment because the Klitschkos have successfully kept the title split for years. They have arguably been the top two heavyweights since Lennox Lewis retired, but their refusal to fight each other (rightly or wrongly) means the division hasn't gotten a #1 vs. #2 matchup for almost eight years.

Some people say Wlad's the "real" champ because Ring magazine gave him a belt after beating their third-ranked guy Chagaev. But Ring also gave Vitali a belt after he beat their third-ranked guy Sanders.

Truth is, Vitali and Wlad have never engaged in a #1 vs. #2 fight to decide to restart the lineage after Lewis' retirement. Ring magazine will admit to that, because both times they've handed out a Ring belt to a heavyweight since Lewis retired came when a Klitschko beat a third-ranked guy. (The Ring figures, close enough, I guess.)

Actually, if the Klitschkos agreed to fight each other right now, they wouldn't need David Haye. The winner of that #1 vs. #2 fight would be the heavyweight champ. But they won't, so that makes David Haye the most important guy in all of this.

The Klitschkos refusal to fight each other has given the third best heavyweight "all" the power.

Neither Klitschko can become the "World Heavyweight Champ" at this point unless David Haye beats one brother and then fights another for all the marbles ... meaning we can't have a world champ unless David Haye is standing in one of the corners gloved up.

So that makes him "the most important person." The Klitschkos know that. That's why they are calling HIM out.

They screwed themselves. That's why they are buckling. They know time is on Haye's side. He can fight Harrison in a huge fight in England. He can fight Chagaev in a mandatory. He can fight Adamek in a fight HBO would love.

On the other hand, the Klitschkos are just about out of options.

So they should stop acting like they are calling the shots, because their strategy of "sharing" the title has effectively handed all control to David Haye. They made this mess. Now it's biting them in the ass.

 

I've read the entire post and i still fail to see a valid reason for Haye deserving 50/50.

 

Wow, that is some of the lamest logic I have ever seen. Haye deserves tHe lion's share of the purse based on the Klitschko's not wanting to fight eachother? Surely you are joking. Fact is both brothers have done way more than Haye has at HW. Haye is nobody, and he's fought nobody. You don't deserve more than half the fucking payday for doing what Haye has done. I don't care how much you dislike the Klitschko's. Fucking ridiculous!!

 

So Haye deserves more than 50% because he beat Barrett and old man Ruiz? You are high.

 

The problem for Haye is he's simply not very good. he runs the risk of getting KO'd by someone he shouldn't. I can't believe you think he deserves the lionshare of the pot. He doesn't deserve parity as far as I'm concerned. He needs the Klits more than they need him.

Lest we not forget...he had a deal to fight and backed out...not the other way around.

 

This makes no sense.

haye doesn't have many options either...you can't bring him to America...there aren't any heavyweights here to fight. The best they've got is Harrison.

I don't LIKE the Klits but it's undeniable Haye has acted like a coward throughout all of this. he made his name of screaming about wanting to fight them..he gets the fight and does all he can to NOT fight them.

That's cowardice through and through no matter how it's sliced and repackaged.

 

He's not even the best in Britain, a complete joke.