How many can you name? Boxing game thread!

True, but having wins against very good/great fighters can't harm someone's all time standing, can it?

And lest we forget, Vitali had a chance to beat an elite fighter in Lennox Lewis, albeit a fat, old and near retired version. And Lewis literally punched holes in him...

MTF

 

I guess I was watching a different fight because I seem to remember Vitali getting the better of Lewis before it was stopped on cuts and ruled a TKO. Lewis then retired rather than having any part of a rematch.

 

They do love a liberty, these Geordies.opcorn:

 

Surely you must have realized I was only making fun of this silly thread:giggle::bears:

 

You must have been because Vitali literally had holes punched into him.



I don't give a shit what the scores were after six, because after six the score became a complete irrelevance. Klitschko was stopped after shipping very hard punches which caused his face to look like this:



Lewis retired because he was old. If he had retired at 27, then your claim that Lewis retired because 'he wanted no part of a rematch' would be valid. he retired at, what, 37, because he was old and wanted no part of anybody anymore.

What possible evidence is there from the entireity of Lewis' career to suggest that he retired because he was frightened of Vitali or anyone else who gave him a tough fight? He rematched both men who knocked him out (one pretty much KHTFO) and won both conclusively, but suddenly he retires in his late thirties because he is frightened of Vitali? :laughing:

Let me tell you how frightened at Vitali Lewis was: not one iota. Lewis fought cautiously against opponents he had some fear of, ala Tua, Holyfield etc. When Lewis had no fear, he went to war (Golota, Botha et al) and that is exactly what he did with Vitali. He figured the Ukrainian couldn't hurt him and threw caution into the wind by going to war (arguably the last great HW fight).

The end result?



MTF

 

It is a silly thread.

The only topic I can think of that'd be sillier is one asking for a list of heavyweights with better "worst" losses than knockouts to Ross Purrity.

 

Consider it this way: Joe Louis' best win is either Max Schmeling or Jersey Joe Walcott. A good case could be made that neither is a top-20 heavyweight in the history. Then take 20 guys who you rank over these two and count how many losses they have. The number will probably be over 100.

It is just silly to single out one fight to make conclusions

 

to be fair to Napoles, he was kicking Backus's ass but he was without ANgelo Dundee, his cutman, and just started bleeding... if he had Dundee there to keep the cut under control, he would have battered Backus just like he did in the rematch (where he had a similar cut)

in the case of Vitali, I just think hes too large for a lot of guys to beat... and he's solid, hes not Primo Carnera large, he's a good fighter who happens to be enormous, thats why I cant envision him losing to a Louis or Frazier, despite their being greater fighters... if he were 6'2 200, thatd be different, but he cant help being huge

 

I'd pick Frazier over Vitali about seven times out of ten, personally. The size disaprity would be huge, but so would the speed disparity in favour of Joe and Vitali doesn't really have the style or the power to discourage Frazier IMHO. The way to beat Joe was through blinding speed (Ali, and even then close) or by throwing very powerful uppercuts (Foreman). Vitali has neither.

MTF

 

Horseshit.

The guy was cut. This is a fight where you get punched in the face. Cuts happen and people bleed. He didn't want the fight to get stopped and he was winning the fight. I am not saying that it was a bad stoppage, but it was definitely one of those fights that should have resulted in an immediate rematch.

Did Lewis ever hint at retirement before the Klitschko fight? Because he sure jumped in with both feet immediately afterwards.

 

Cuts happen when you get punched in the face. If the other guy punches you in the face often enough and hard enough that your face is cleaved apart then you lose the fight.

This isn't some new or controversial rule, is it? :dunno: If you are winning on points but get KTFO then you lose, right? :dunno: If you are winning on points but your face has three gaping vaginas on it because you are too slow to get the fuck out of the way of your opponents punches, you lose, right? :dunno:

Who gives a shit about what the judges scores were? Vitali lost by TKO because he was too slow to get out of the way of punches being thrown by the only truly elite fighter he has ever faced. In six rounds, four of which he apparently lost, Lewis hit Vitali with more punches than every other Vitali opponent has put together. The result was that Vitali was stopped by halfway because when faced with a fighter who had anything about him, he got bludgeoned and was turned into a blood-spattered mess.

You wanna credit Vitali for being tough and acquitting himself well? Sure, I'll grant both. But he LOST, legitimately so in fact, and I can't for the life of me recall any current fighter who gains as much credit for being turned into this



in a losing effort than Vitali has. In fact, his losing effort against Lewis is arguably his BEST career achievement. Draw your own conclusions...

MTF

 

Vitali's has been hitting men who weighed upwards of 60lbs more than Joe, and who were faster than Joe. His "lack of stopping power" has come against heavier targets. At some point in time, the laws of physics must apply. George Foreman had 2 noteworthy KO's in the entirety of his 2nd coming as champ- over reformed crackhead Gerry Cooney and over used-to-be 175lb champ, Mike Moorer. I mean, he could KO Frazier but not Morrison. That Morrison must have had some chin. Either that or Bentt and Mercer hit harder than Foreman. Axel Schulz and Alex Stewart...they must have been some tanks.

 

That's some revisionist history you have going on there.

Punch Stats
Punches landed

Vitali 156

Lewis 102

Lewis was losing the fight on all three scorecards. At the end of the 6th round he literally just collapsed on his stool. He was damn lucky that the fight was stopped because had it gone another round or two it looked like he was going to be stopped.

Again, I have no issue with the stoppage. I have issue with the fact that Lewis immediately retired rather than giving Vitali the rematch that he deserved. Lewis turned down 25 million dollars to take the rematch. You have to be a complete Lewis nut-hugger to think he retired for any reason other than he didn't want to fight Klit again and he knew that if he fought anyone else he would look like a coward.

 

By then George was in his forties man: blokes don't hit harder as they go into their forties, generally speaking. Especially not when they have slowed right down to the point of almost stopping...:nono:

Vitali throws arm punches. I am neither critical or appreciative of these, frankly, he can throw what he likes because it has been effective (largely) over the course of his career. But his stoppages come through accumulation- he isn't really a one-punch, KO artist (and don't even waste my time posting obscure you-tube clips of him knocking some scrubs over- you can do that for practially anyone and it proves fuck all) and he doesn't really throw anymore the uppercut that you need to throw to bowl Frazier over.

Oh, and who has Vitali fought that was faster (in feet and with the left hook) than Joe Frazier? :dunno:

MTF

 

I dont know, Feebs... I love Joe Frazier, but he's just so much smaller than Vitali... Frazier is a way better fighter, but I dont think its enough to take care of that 50 pounds, 7 inches difference... itd be hard enough to land his hook on a guy that tall

 

Who CARES about punch-stats?? :dunno: :dunno: What is the point in landing 156 punches and inflicting no damage when the other guy lands 102 and smashes your face to a bloody pulp? The object of boxing is NOT to land more punches than the other bloke- it is to knock him the fuck out or to inflict enough damage that he has to be rescued by the referee, you mad bastard. Why is this so difficult to understand?

As for this 'slumping in the stool'- so fucking what? If one man doesn't answer the bell because he can no longer fight after being punched in the face too often, he LOSES, regardless of how tired the other man is. Ask Joe Frazier FFS.

If you think Lewis retired because he was frightened of a man he had just punched holes into rather than because he had beaten the one man he always wanted to beat (Tyson), was a multi-multi millionaire and was old, then you are a complete Lewis hater and nothing else.

MTF

 

Would he be able to reach Vitali's body?

 

certainly possible... believe me, I'd love to be wrong about this

 

Kirk Johnson threw a faster left hook. <iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/we6jhccqE9I" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>

 

How many rounds are these two mythically matching up for?

 

how about 12?

 

Joe was a body puncher, though, and one of the best ever at that. He wouldn't go looking for Vitali's head towering above the lights- he'd be punching at the ribs like nobody's business.

The size disparity would be HUGE of course, and like I said, three times out of ten Vitali makes good use of that and wins IMHO. But does he hit hard enough, does he throw enough uppercuts, how would he fare having to jab DOWN at such a small HW, how does he deal with all that footwork, the non-stop aggression and smashing hooks that Frazier brings? Lots of impoderables here, and where there are imponderables, I'd go with the more proven guy.

Thats Frazier.

MTF

 

Haha did I touch a nerve? Obviously, as evident from your posts, you don't like Vitali and you have a hard-on for Lewis. I don't really like either guy, but I think you'd have to be blind not to think Lewis lucked out there at the end.

"if one man doesnt not answer the bell" & "saved by the referee" - did you even watch the fight? Klit was begging for the fight to go on. Lewis meanwhile practically needed mouth-to-mouth resuscitation in his corner.

Your last paragraph is just utter horseshit. If it were true then he would've retired after the Tyson fight.

 

It would have to be 12. Vitali has never proven he can go 15 rounds.

Does Vitali hit harder than Bonavena?

 

that is actually debateable

Vitali is not a big hitter, very much an accumulation puncher

he also fights nothing like Bonavena

 

there was nothing lucky about Lennox's win against Vitali

he was fucking HAMMERING him in the round before it was stopped

 

I reckon Vitali could hurt Bonavena more than Bonavena could hurt Vitali.

 

Actually, I like Vitali. I'd have him in an all time top 20 at HW as it happens.

Its just that you are talking absolute bullshit, having addressed almost none of my points and instead are asking stupid questions like 'did I watch the fight'- the last bastion of anyone who has no friggin' clue what they are talking about. The penultimate bastion, of course, is reference to punch-stats...

Did Vitali have holes punched into him- yes or no? :dunno:

Was Vitali rescued by the referee because he had been smashed into a bloody pulp- yes or no? :dunno:

Do the scorecards matter when one man has been punched so hard and frequently in the face that he is cut to the bone midway through the fight- yes or no? :dunno:

Is the object of boxing to knock your oppenent out and/or to batter him badly enough that the referee is moved to stop the fight- yes or no? :dunno:

Should a fighter who lands 159 punches with no discernable effect get more credit than a fighter who lands fifty less punches but with a serious, damaging, fight-ending effect- yes or no? :dunno:

These are the questions which you fail to answer. They are the only questions which matter here.

MTF

 

Yet Vitali survived the round and Lewis had blown his load at the end and was dead in the corner. He was lucky it was stopped when it was rather than it lasting another round or two and he was lucky that he didn't take the rematch. Otherwise people like us would have nothing to debate and this thread wouldn't exist because Vitali would have a win in the RE over Lewis.

 

Except that he wanted to get paid for a rematch...or don't you remember that part?