I am still a Vick fan.

dsimon writes:

WE have friends from near Indianapolis. My friend is a rasta... and get this, he was adopted and raised in a white English family from London. What they were doing in Indiana? I have no idea, I don't think the father was a professor, so it was not a university thing.

They go back during the holidays but most of his brothers and sisters are here now. His other brother who is also Black is a real thug.::

 

Born and raised :cheer:

 

You would be surprised how many Africans and Jamaicans live in Indianapolis. I have no idea why they would come here, but I know more than a few.

 

dsimon writes:

So Indianapolis has some diversity? Thats interesting. How far away are you guys from Chicago?

 

I think it's about a 3 hour drive. I just thought about this some more, and I have noticed some Africans at Village Pantry too when I get lunch some times. Also, my mom happens to know quite a few Africans at the Post Office and my Neighbor also happens to be Jamaican. The place I work also employed a few Africans too. It is a little strange that I know of so many, seems like there must be some reason why they flock here.....just can't put my finger on it or think of why :dunno: .

 

May be they think there lots of people from India living in Indianapolis? They can form a league to play cricket ?

 

:doh:

 

Now that you brought India up, that sparked another epiphony, my sister works with alot of Asians and Indians in her field. What's funny, the Asians have a community housing here called.....I will have to ask her tomorrow, I forget right now. She even has to do "diversity" training at her work because SHE is a minority ::

Why so many different cultures comming to Indiana? This must be wide spread :nono:

 

Hypocrite huh? ::

 

dsimon writes:

Yeah that is interesting. It must be economics.

 

Vick is gonna be a convicted criminal if he is found guilty.

If I were found guilty of a crime in court, I would receive a criminal record and be dismissed from my job without pay. I can't be a public servant and a convicted criminal at the same time.

With Vick, the NFL is a privately owned enterprise, isn't it? His employers can fire him if he has violated a term in his contract, so if he's found guilty, his career in the NFL is over. The businessmen also have the right to protect THEIR livelihood by not having their organizations linked to crime. If Vick did it, he's out.

SHOULD he be out permanently? I'd say no, but he should be treated the same as everyone else. He can apply for a job, and if he has a record, he probably won't get it. After a set period, he can apply for a pardon and get his record pardoned, and then he can do whatever he likes just like all the rest of society.

He reportedly financed this illegal operation from 2001-2007. That's 7 years of breaking the law. You do the crime, you face the consequences.

 

That's a good point. Certain employers will not let you work with a record like that. So he will have to settle for a lesser job that will accept him just like every other person who gets a felony, good luck Vick with the Arena Football.

 

Vick has already entered a plea deal with the government, so there is little chance that he will not be found guilty. He'll be a felon for life unless he is granted a pardon by the authorities, and that isn't likely to happen.

I don't think Vick will ever play again, because he'll never be given the artificial hype that he was given before. Also, after seven years in the NFL, he was still a work in progress (go figure! :dunno: ). After two or three years away from the sport, he'll be even more lost than he is now.

And what get's me is when people claim that Vick has a right to make a living playing football in the NFL. Where is the law that states that the NFL has to employ felons? Is football the only way he can make a living? He can work at Taco Bell or in a warehouse. Maye he could wrestle or play arena football. If the guy weren't a complete idiot, he would still have enough money to never have to work.

 

So there isn't any more confusion, a plea deal means "manly" .....carry on.....

 

My guess is he wouldn't even get that arena football job. He would have a hard time getting a travel visa and a work visa. People don't want to hire convicted criminals because their organizations can suffer indirectly as sponsors pull their deals.

I'm not going to argue whether he did it, whether he was wrong for doing it, or whether it should or should not be a crime. That's simple subjective morality, and you're just not going to reach a consensus because different people have different valuesystems. :dunno:

I will argue, however, that if he is convicted of committing a crime, he should get no special treatment one way or the other.

But if I were him, I wouldn't hold out for any endorsement deals. Wheaties isn't likely to break his door down.::

 

Maybe he could play with the CFA ::

 

Subjective morality? He admitted to the crimes! You can't go out on a limb and state that breeding dogs specifically to fight to the death, and brutally killing the dogs that weren't game isn't wrong on some level? It's only wrong if the authorities, the NFL or potential endorsers say that it's wrong? :dunno:

 

Anybody comparing hunting with dogfighting is just trying to argue that dogfighting shouldn't be looked upon harshly.

Hunting for food is understandable although it is not necessary. Hunting because you enjoy killing creatures is sickening. One of our big values as a species, which we have hardwired into our legal framework, is the sanctity of life.

Many people hunt or have hunted so that they can put food on the table; in other words, they hunt because they want to eat the meat. The sanctity of life is preserved because it is the hunter's life and the lives of the hunter's family or friends that is preserved through the consumption of meat.

Vick isn't serving up pitbull quiche. He's training pitbulls to rip into other animals and kill them in a brutal fashion for enjoyment. He's not doing it for food but rather for pleasure. To me, that's disgusting. Society also thinks so or else we wouldn't have laws governing the treatment of animals. That's NOT subjective; it's our system of governance.

Hunting is also disgusting to me if it is done as a sport, but if it is done in order to eat, it is being done so that WE survive. I'm not saying it HAS to be that way, but if that is the hunter's rationale, I can understand it because they have the right to live, and they also have the legal protection to do it according to society's dictates: gun license, hunting license, hunting boundaries, hunting limits and so forth and so on.

Anybody whining over Michael Vick's situation should realize one fact. Vick is responsible for choosing to do what he did for 7 years.

 

Ropa,
I said: I'm not going to argue whether he did it, whether he was wrong for doing it, or whether it should or should not be a crime. That's simple subjective morality...

 

It's a very sturdy limb to climb out on.

 

:bears:

 

We do our disaster recovery testing in Indy and 2 of the security guards are Africans. One of them had some hellish stories of growing up in Africa. Very interesting, but sad. Seemed like a rough life from all of his stories.

 

Where was PETA and all the rest of the uproar when these athletes were convicted of dawg fighting. How come Mike Vick is getting such a stiff penalty when these cats got slaps on the wrist.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

<!-- start content --> LeShon Johnson (born January 15, 1971 in Haskell, Oklahoma), is a former American professional football player who was drafted by the Green Bay Packers in the 3rd round of the 1994 NFL Draft.
Johnson, a running back, played for the Green Bay Packers, Arizona Cardinals, and the New York Giants. Johnson's career was interrupted by Lymphoma cancer; however, he managed to make a comeback and subsequently started for the Giants.
In Johnson's best game he rushed for 214 yards on 21 carries for the Arizona Cardinals versus the New Orleans Saints on September 22nd, 1996. His football career ended playing in the XFL for the Chicago Enforcers.
Johnson played college football at Northern Illinois University. In 1993 Johnson was the nation’s number one rusher with 1,976 yards on 327 carries for an average of 179.6 yards per game. Johnson finished sixth in the 1993 Heisman Trophy voting race, with five first-place votes. He played only 2 years at that college, but his total yards mark of 3,314 still places him fifth on the school's all-time list.
Johnson was a standout high school running back at Haskell High School in Oklahoma. He played college football at Northeastern Oklahoma A&M College before transferring to Northern Illinois. Leshon was a bull rider on the junior rodeo circuit, earning the nickname the "Cowboy," which followed him throughout his football career.
Johnson pled guilty in 2005 to dog fighting in Okmulgee County, Oklahoma. He received a five-year deferred sentence.

Monday July 12, 2004 5:54pm Reporter: Bill Mitchell
<!-- CHECK TEXT--><!-- new-->Holdenville - A dog fighting ring in Oklahoma may be tied to others in Texas and California. There are new developments in the case we've been following for more than a month. Many of the pit bull dogs allegedly belong to former NFL running back LeShon Johnson.
Oklahoma authorities tell us dog fighting is a nationwide problem and has links to gambling and drugs. Investigators from the Oklahoma Vet Board and Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics agents seized documents tied to the dog fighting ring. Those documents include sales receipts, breeding certificates and fighting schedules.
According to Oklahoma authorities, LeShon Johnson went from a running back in the National Football League to running a major dog breeding and fighting operation here in Oklahoma. Johnson was charged with racketeering and conspiracy in June.
Last week, the dogs allegedly belonging to him were found at relatives homes near Checotah. So far, police have arrested 22 people and confiscated more than two hundred fighting dogs. Most of the 142 pit bulls seized in May have already been euthanized.
"There were three puppies that hadn't been trained and we can get good homes for those," says OBN Spokesman Mark Woodward. "But, the rest, for an adult dog already gone through this type of training to be a dog fighter, it's just too risky."
Woodward says some of the training methods for these fighting pit bulls are inhumane.
"By dumping them in a two to three foot vat of water and just making them fight to stay afloat for two hours to see if they have the endurance, very cruel means of training long before they get into the ring," he said.
Authorities say Johnson has his own website promoting his dogs and their heritage. Woodward says browsers can register, get a password, and see the fighting history of the dogs as well. He says this is big business. Stud fees on the fighting pit bulls start at five hundred dollars. And, the purchase price of a good dog begins at a couple of thousand dollars.
The investigation into the fighting dogs covers five Oklahoma counties. And, authorities are promising more dog confiscations like this one as well as more arrests.
If found guilty, Johnson could get ten years in prison for every dog linked to his operation -- more than 500 years.

[SIZE=+1]Prosecutors still mulling dog fight charges[/SIZE]
Nearly six weeks after Osage County sheriff's deputies raided a reported organized dog fight at the home of a professional New York Giants running backfootball player near Sperry, prosecutors are still mulling whether to file criminal charges.
District Attorney Larry Stuart said he hasn't studied the sheriff's reports and it would be wrong to assume there was a dog fight.
Citations were written to 14 people during the Feb. 12 raid at the home of LeShon and Michelle Johnson, Sheriff Russell Cottle said. There were wounded pit bull terriers in a blood-spattered barn and some 70 dogs staked in the nearby woods, according to a report filed by Deputy Lou Ann Brown. The lack of action by prosecutors has some neighbors upset, said Bob McIntyre, a nearby convenience store owner.
McIntyre said that weeks before the law enforcement raid, neighbors had asked authorities to investigate because they suspected dog fights on the property.
"Besides concern over animal cruelty, they (residents) were afraid some youth taking a walk in the woods would run into the pit bulls staked there," McIntyre said.
Nicole Gray of Dallas, Texas, said she sold the property in January to the Johnsons. It includes 11 acres with a home, a guest house with garage and a barn with stalls.
The tickets were written when sheriff's deputies, an Oklahoma Highway Patrol officer and a Skiatook police officer responded to a tip that there was a pit bull fight in progress at the home of Johnson, a New York Giants running back from Haskell.
When deputies arrived about 11:40 p.m., several people "scattered like a covey of quail" and ran into the woods, Cottle said.
Nine people were rounded up by deputies while they were hiding in vehicles and outbuildings. An unknown number of people escaped, the report said.
Johnson was found inside the residence. His wife was outside the door of an outbuilding with a wounded pit bull, according to the sheriff and the report. Both denied involvement, Cottle said. "They (Johnsons) weren't given tickets, but we turned in our report and they (prosecutors) may be looking at charges against him (Johnson) because it was his place," Cottle said. "I don't know what's going on at that (prosecution) end; we did our job."
Also according to the sheriff's report, deputies saw blood spots on a center isle of the barn and a dog in a pen bleeding.
There were several vehicles parked at the residence. Many of them had portable dog kennels and license tags from Florida, Georgia, Alabama and Tulsa, the sheriff said.
Meanwhile, Stuart has turned the case over to his assistant, Rene Henry, to review the case for possible prosecution. Henry has not returned repeated phone calls.
If the district attorney's office decides to develop the citations as misdemeanors, those ticketed could face $500 fines or up to a year in jail. The penalties for hosting a dog fight are more severe.
Garl Willis, lead investigator with the Tulsa police department's animal control division, said organizing dog fights is a felony. Upon conviction, the sentence can range up to 10 years in prison and a $25,000 fine.
Willis said he only investigates dog-fighting incidents within the Tulsa city limits.
"I think it (pit bull fighting) is more of a macho thing," Willis said, "that and the large amounts of money involved. I don't understand how people can be involved in gathering to watch two dogs tear each other apart."
Willis said investigators can confiscate all vehicles, equipment and the dogs themselves if they suspect a dog fight has been held.

By the way this is what he received.

Sentence: Pled guilty to the following felony charges on December 20, 2005: One count of possessing dogs for the purpose of fighting, one count of encouraging dogs to fight, and one count of facilitating a dog fight. As part of a plea agreement, Johnson's sentence was deferred, and he was placed on 5 years probation. He was ordered to pay a $2,000.00 fine, $1,216.00 for court costs, and restitution in the amount of $5,000.00.

I'll Holla 5000

 

Are you really so simple minded?

 

Naw not really. Just trying to figure out a couple of things. 1 where was all the outcry and the protesting by PETA and Culligula. I never heard any of you cats bringing this up. And 2nd why didn't his case go before the federal grand jury and why did he receive such a light sentence. If I'm not mistaken this wasn't the first time he was convicted of dawg fighting. However just want everyone to know that I do not condone the fighting of dawgs. I'll Holla 5000

 

Didn't bring it up because I didn't hear about it. What are you trying to insinuate? You can't even make sense.

 

Just my point. Where was ESPN at? I mean ESPN was around in 2004. There was no HBO real sports showing anything about dog fighting. Why is there such a witch hunt to get Vick when there are other cases of professional athletes that have been caught doing the exact same thing. I mean Calligula is a member of PETA so surely he he would have known. How come PETA wasn't protesting the games and the NFL when this occurred. They make it seem as if Vick was the first NFL player to participate in dog fighting. Or perhaps they just didn't care about this dude cause he wasn't making $130 million and didn't think that they could gain anything financially. I also want to know why federal charges wasn't filed in this case. I mean there was gambling, drugs, crossing state lines, and ofcourse dog fighting but yet all this dude got was a suspended sentence and 5 years probation. Come on dawg something is foul. If that this don't make sense then something is wrong with you. I'll Holla 5000

 

Jesus Christ you really are that simple. Do you need me to hold your hand and explain why this is a big deal?

Get your head out of your ass. It's getting tiresome.

 

Just something else to add.

Vick isn't the first athlete to be connected to dogfighting. NBA player Qyntel Woods was accused of hosting dog fights at his Portland home in 2004 and he eventually pled guilty to first-degree animal abuse. Former NFL running back LeShon Johnson received a five-year deferred sentence in 2005 after officials seized 200 dogs during a raid of his dogfighting operation that led to 20 people being convicted. And former Dallas Cowboys lineman Nate Newton was arrested at a dogfight in Texas, although charges were later dropped.

That dude got 200 dogs seized from his property and still only got a deferred sentence and 5 years probation. Are you kidding me. I'll Holla 5000

 

Alright, give me a conspiracy then that makes sense. I didn't notice the amount of gambling and funds that was put up as much as Vick and the length of time, not saying there isn't.....just saying.