I am still a Vick fan.

Is it peoples' job here to bring up every crime involving an athlete? Of course not, we simply comment on the ones we hear about. You're mentioning guys that I've never even heard of...which isn't too surprising seeing as how I couldn't name more than 2 guys in the CFL, and that's my country's football league.

Bottom line: you can name these guys because you are more attuned to football. Plain and simple. You follow it closely. Some of us just plain don't. :dunno:

 

No, actually there are harsh judges and there are lenient judges. If the judge feels like giving a sentence that includes more time, he does so. There's a max to what the judge can give, but if he feels like giving the max, he will do it....and that means the sentence the judge dishes out is a consequence of how the judge feels about a particular court case and, by extension, the individual or individuals being prosecuted.

 

Wow, I get the feeling that, by this point, no further intelligent discussion is likely to occur between these two, but that's just a guess. ::

 

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this (and I'm not rereading this entire thread) but when Vick's property was originally searched, dogfighting was a misdemeanor. Eight days later, Bush signed a law which made it a felony.

Talk about bad timing!

 

Now thats funny. :laughing:

 

You too are killing me here.::

 

It's a conspiracy! ::

 

Here is the thing Leeder. When u r PETA and u have a professional athlete that has been busted 3 times in the past and then 4th time he's bust for animal cruelty and dog fighting then they should know. That is their responsibility especilly considering that their was 200 dogs confiscated from the property. And the reason I keep brining up Caligulla is because he's oneof their main supporters and he's a sports fan so he should have heard about this story. Which makes me think a couple of things 1 he's not the PETA supporter that he claims to be or they only care about this Vick thing because its Vick. Also can anyone tell me why the feds choose to go after Vick and will possibly sanction him to jail time for his first offense for this type of crime but yet Woods gets probabtion and a suspended sentence for multiple dog fighting offenses. That's all I want to know. I'll Holla 5000

 

I'm posting from my phone. But anyways Leeder my little midget friend a can give a stiffer sentnece however it is based off the sentencing grid or sanctioning grid. There is a standard range for each crime along with the seriousness level. So the judge can give the higher portion or the lower portion but most of the time the sanction time is already agreed up. For instance I have to complete a PSI guy who has plead guilty to his crime and his range is 57-75 months of prison. Now the defense and the pros are prolly gonna split the time between the 57-75 why because the defense wants the lower range and the prosecution wants the highest range. Now the judge can say I don't except the state and the defenses recommendation ane take the higher range which is 75 months but all the times I've been apart of the judge goes with the agreed upon recommendation.Now in Vicks case there wasn't a judge assigned to his case in the initial stages. Like I said why is this case being handled by the feds rather than local prosecution when woods bascially did the exact same thing and the feds didn't even bother not on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th offense. And last u keep saying we when I speak about Caligulla aned PETA. Are u also a member of PETA. If not then this doesn't have anything to do with u. However I do feel that PETA should have known especially considering that it was a former pro athlete with that large amount of dogs involved. And another thing Caligulla is a big time football fan this story mentioned on ESPN and I know he watches it so with him being a member why didn't hey say or doing anythin. And let's say he didn't see the story. I am willing to bet someone from PETA saw the story. Just makes me wonder why protest against Vick and not Woods. Do they have some other alternative motive. I'll Holla 5000

 

Bigdawg, I will agree with you that it is not consistant that the other guy was let off 4 times while Vick is being prosecuted. I have no idea why that would be, but I do know that if I were in charge I would have fried the first guy in the same way as Vick is getting now if not worse. The earlier feds should have taken up the case and maybe Vick would have come to his sences and not been involved in a dog fighting ring. Hopefully this will deter others who are thinking that its cool to fight dogs and since Woods got off free they think they will too. Maybe this is what Vick was thinking. :dunno:

 

Just a thought .
I think sometimes the penalties get worse each time they occur simply because in general the powers that be are simply sick of seeing it occur over and over.
It's just general knowledge that if someone or mutiple different people do something that you don't particularly care for , you will be more angered by the 10th time it happens compared to the first.

 

That very well could be. I know I would be sick of it if I seen it over and over again.

 

dsimon writes:

PETA is shady I agree with you. I am all for animals being treated right but PETA has no perspective and some of their "solutions" to the mistreatment of animals are questionable... some even involve murdering animals BTW.

I don't trust their judgement and I too can't see any reason why the Feds should be involved with the persecution of this offense.

 

Well, the first thing I'd ask would be whether these other people did it in such a largescale fashion.

Another thing to remember is that he is a high-profile athlete who did this for SEVEN YEARS. Seven years of having dogs rip each other to pieces. When the dogs didn't perform, they were drowned, electrocuted, or beaten to death. That's pretty sick crap. When children do this type of thing, they are much more likely to become serial killers.

Celebrities get flack all the time and the main reason is because, like Vick, they are in the public eye...but I don't remember the last time someone got nailed for something of this magnitude.

Look at Heidi Fleiss. She did TIME, a few years at least, for prostitution charges. To me, prostitution is nowhere near as bad as beating a bunch of dogs to death, or electrocuting them or drowning them because they won't kill each other fast enough or good enough.

Paris Hilton was on every front page and people were going nuts about her getting lenient treatment. She got flack for a couple of DUI charges, and she didn't kill anybody let alone a bunch of dogs.

 

Don't worry, hasbeen. I'll reply when I get a chance, but I gotta head out. You sell any Sparkebars in the stands at an NFL game yet? ::

 

Of course it isn't. Prostitution represents 98.75% of your sex life. The other 1.25% is centered around Slystaff's vacation schedule. ::

 

....so says the guy who is so enamored with Vick, you tell us how manly he is and how impressed with him you are because Vick said he was sorry for torturing dogs years later........ only when he is facing sentencing ::

 

He won't get it, it has to do with coke ::

 

:laughing:

 

You know what I just figured it out about you. You are correct judges tend to be more strick when sentencing sex offenders. I guess that's why you are pissed about judges being harsh. But I have a question for you knowing that you've probably been through sexual deviancy treatment in all. But is this true. I'll Holla 5000

Sex-offender therapy is behind the times

Still hasn't proved it can stop reoffenders

By VANESSA HO
P-I REPORTER
Patrick Velez walked into a fast-food restaurant in Pierce County and kidnapped two teenage female employees at knifepoint. He bound their wrists, taped their eyes and mouths shut, drove them to a secluded area. Then he raped one of the victims, who was 17.
Later convicted of the November 1981 crimes, Velez wound up spending eight years in sex-offender treatment, in and out of prison. He kept logs of his fantasies, took polygraph tests, underwent "arousal reconditioning" and learned how to have positive relationships.
By the time Velez left prison in 2000, officials still considered him a high-risk offender, but were encouraged by his progress. He had "done quite well in treatment," a therapist wrote in his prison records, and had demonstrated "good relapse-prevention knowledge."
Last month, prosecutors charged him with trying to strangle a woman after hiding in her car in a Costco parking lot in Tukwila. He had a "rape kit" -- knife, gloves and handcuffs -- along with condoms, lubricant, a douche bag and women's underwear in his car, police said.
While the Velez case is alarming, another treated sex offender, Terapon Adhahn, recently stirred outrage across Washington, prompting calls for a one-strike-you're-out-law. The Tacoma handyman is accused of graduating from incest to kidnapping, child rape and murder.
Velez and Adhahn offer glimpses into the conflicted world of sex-offender therapy. Despite inconsistent research findings on the subject, sex-offender treatment is not only a fixture in criminal justice, but also a burgeoning field, with the number of certified therapists more than doubling statewide in the last 10 years.
And while the overall climate for sex offenders has radically changed -- with longer sentences and more restrictions -- treatment has largely remained static, relying on the same cognitive-behavioral methods introduced in the 1980s.
"It's an ongoing question, there's no two ways about it," said Roxanne Lieb, director of the Washington State Institute of Public Policy, on the effectiveness of treatment. "Certainly, it's not a cure-all," she said.
Last year, Lieb's office released a study that found that Washington's prison treatment program for male sex offenders -- one of the largest in the nation -- had virtually no effect on reducing recidivism rates.
The study echoed a landmark 2005 study, in which researchers found that a California hospital program for confined sex offenders had no significant impact on curbing repeat crimes.
Both studies, however, have detractors who point to other studies showing that treatment works.
"There's pretty good evidence that if you pick out the right kind of people, who feel badly about what they've done, you can alter those patterns," Lieb said. "But if you have someone who's anti-social, who hates women or who is sexually attracted to little kids, no one knows anything about what to do about those three things."
'End goal is not a cure'

When Velez pleaded guilty to first-degree rape in 1982, he was a 19-year-old with entrenched sexual deviancies, court records show. He had peeped on neighbors as a child growing up in Tacoma. He burglarized homes to steal women's underwear.
As a teenager, he cruised for rape victims and once hid in the back seat of a woman's car, he told therapists. He had threatened the woman with scissors, but fled when she screamed and was never caught.
For the assault on the restaurant workers, which one therapist described as "brutal" and "extremely predatory," Velez received a 20-year suspended sentence. That required him to complete a now-defunct program at Western State Hospital for "sexual psychopaths."
Velez flunked out after five years. He got a second chance at treatment and flunked again, after fantasizing about raping his therapist.
He then went to prison in 1989, where he enrolled in the state's Sex Offender Treatment Program, based at the Twin Rivers Unit in the Monroe Correctional Complex.
Despite Lieb's study, prison officials are quick to defend the 200-bed, $1.8 million-a-year program. In fact, they want to expand it, with a second location in Eastern Washington.
"The study says what it says," said Sally Neiland, the treatment program's unit supervisor. "But being here every day, seeing men released, watching them graduate, hearing from them they have successful lives -- they report that wouldn't have happened without treatment."
Neiland could not discuss Velez, but said offenders in general spend about a year in treatment, learning to recognize stressors such as anger or boredom, and to change thought and behavior patterns.
Many undergo a process called "arousal reconditioning," in which a deviant fantasy is paired with a foul odor such as Limburger cheese, rotting meat or skunk urine. (Twin Rivers used to use ammonia capsules, but stopped when they learned the method can be harmful).
Offenders also learn how to manage emotions, develop social skills and empathize with victims, in part by listening to a Holocaust survivor.
"The end goal is not a cure," Neiland said. "It's to assist them in learning what situations lead them to offend and how to create intervention."
By the time Velez left prison, he had married a nurse educator he met at a hospital. He had begun attending Quaker meetings and taking classes in computer programming. He moved into his wife's rural Maple Valley home, where he did well under the terms of his two-year community supervision. It ended in 2002. The next five years are a mystery.
Velez, who is now in the Regional Justice Center jail, did not return a call for comment, nor did his wife.
"I wonder what was going on in his life, and how did he fail to use the tools that he was given?" Neiland said. "How did he unravel?"
<table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="464"> <tbody><tr valign="top"><td colspan="2"></td></tr> </tbody></table>
Therapists often fooled

In Adhahn's case, treatment meant five years of court-ordered therapy after he pleaded guilty to incest for raping a teenage relative in 1990.
He fulfilled that by going to group therapy, much of it once a week, and submitting himself to polygraph and plethysmograph tests, the latter of which measures penile arousal to sexual material.
Toward the end of treatment, counselor Daniel DeWaelsche lauded Adhahn's progress.
"Terapon has demonstrated that he is using the skills and techniques, gleaned in sex-offender treatment, on a day-to-day basis to avoid recidivism," DeWaelsche wrote in 1997. "It has been a pleasure working with Terapon."
Ten years later, prosecutors say Adhahn kidnapped, raped and killed 12-year-old Zina Linnik, and raped two other girls, one of whom was abducted on her way to school.
DeWaelsche did not return a call for comment.
Experts say it's not uncommon for offenders to fool therapists, and that some people do well in treatment and deteriorate later.
Beyond that, answers become well-oiled bromides. Experts know that a subset of offenders -- psychopaths, predators and extreme deviants -- are more dangerous than others and may not do well in treatment. Of the more than a dozen violent predators released from the state's Special Commitment Center since 2001, more than half have had their releases revoked.
Experts also say most sex offenders rarely reoffend, a notation usually followed by a swift acknowledgement that all sex crimes are traumatic, no matter how rare. Then they say there are no simple answers.
More counselors are combining therapy with anti-depressants and anti-androgens, which reduce testosterone and are sometimes called "chemical castration." But anti-androgens can have severe side effects, and only a few offenders take them.
"The reality is this: Nothing beats intelligence," said Richard Packard, a clinical forensic psychologist on Bainbridge Island and past president of the Washington Association for the Treatment of Sexual Abusers.
But research and supervision are expensive, he said. "We spend no money on trying to understand how to do it better -- how to evaluate and treat sex offenders better."
Instead, many therapists find themselves cringing at the inevitable clamor that follows high-profile sex crimes.
"It's no big secret treatment doesn't work. You cannot rewire somebody's mind," said state Sen. Pam Roach, R-Auburn, a longtime supporter of tougher sentences and decreased funding for treatment.
House Republicans recently proposed GPS tracking for high-risk offenders and up to a year in prison for failing to register. Gov. Chris Gregoire has appointed a group to study the Adhahn case and propose any legislative changes by Oct. 4.
Spurred by outrage over the Adhahn charges, citizens lobbying for an improbable one-strike-you're-out law for sex offenders have rekindled their efforts.
"What is just? I'm not saying I have an answer, and I'm a psychologist," Packard said. "I mean, you do that to my kid, believe me, I'm going to be really mad."
But many sex offenders benefit from treatment, he said, and few are incarcerated forever. Then he asked the question of the ages: "So, what are we going to do about it?"

 

Naw sorry playboy I got a distributor doing that shit for me. They also distribute my water called osmosis. Shit is hot and selling. Quick question you still delivering pizzas and is your moms still wanting to show her breast to internet posters? I'll Holla 5000

 

Oh yeah Tyler which one of those convicted sex offenders are you related to? You know they say that those who molest have been molested at some point in their life. So you gots to be related to a sex offender. Who was it your pops, your uncle maybe even one of your uncles? I'll Holla 5000

 

A distributor, eh? Hopefully they do a better job than you did of staying in the NFL. ::

 

That sex offender stuff is pretty gruesome. If only those offenders had Sparkebar. :: :: ::

 

First you started selling soap, and now you sell soap AND WATER? Because nothing sells faster than hot water sold by an NFL washout. How do you market it?

"Soap and water...buy it and wash out just like I did in the NFL!" :: :: ::

 

U Say this as If ANYBODY Can Make it to the NFL,BUDDY...

How Looooooooooong was YOUR NFL Career???


REED:dunno:

 

Did I say anybody could? Damn, first you two stick up for Michael Vick and now you two co-sign for each other. My NFL Career was a bit longer than yours, REED....mainly because I stayed out of jail so they thought I'd be a better role model! ::

 

Buddy has been in the Northern Fatso League for years.

 

Has it been a month ALREADY since Hitler Junior got his ass knocked skidding off the forum? ::

 

Damn bigdawg I would say you were torn on this issue: you love you proud negro athletes and you love your canines. In other words, you love dawgs and dogs.

How did you feel about this???

I'd say you went for the Canines, 55/45.