I saw something interesting (Pavlik-Taylor)..

i'm having a hard time thinking of anyone RJJ fought and defeated, let alone dominated and knocked out, who resembles Pavlik.

and what is this talk of Pavlik having a bad chin. he's a very offensive fighter. he gets hit. sometimes he goes down. but he always gets up. and he's yet to lose. and he's faced some big hitters too.

 

Lemme know when Pavlik faces and beats anyone who fights like, or is remotely the calibre of a prime Jones. And I'll give you a little hint, Taylor isnt it!

Pavlik getting nearly KO'd by a sloppy, amateurish Taylor is not good news for how well he'd fare under Roy's power. But forget Roy's power, the SPEED would be Kelly's problem, just like it was for every other Roy victim. And unlike Taylor, a prime Jones wouldnt be a stationary target for Pavlik to bang on. And also unlike Taylor, Roy actually had a BRAIN, and the ability to counterpunch. Prime Roy KO's Pavlik w/o a shadow of the doubt.

And a prime Hopkins wouldnt need "stink" to beat Pavlik. He'd box the living shit outta him and probably stop him late. By you suggesting that Hopkins would use "stink" to win makes me think that you didnt start watching Hopkins until 03. The late 90's B-Hop was actually aggressive, and put his punches together. He was a far cry from the punch, and hold old man Hopkins of today.

Its sad that people have ALREADY forgotten how good Jones, and Hopkins were in thier primes.

 

I'm a big Pavlik fan but I agree Roy in his prime vs a prime Pavlik is a mismatch.. Roy would dominate him

 

Double will never admit it. His hate for Roy is too great. I believe he also suggested that Mikkel Kessler coulda beaten a prime Roy as well.:doh:

And he better check his criticism of Roy's resume at the fuckin door! Cause Pavlik still has a WAY's to go before he can touch Roy's resume, and level of dominance. And personally I doubt he'll ever reach it.

 

Welcome to Fightbeat SRR...

Sadly, logic such as this does not often hold true around here bud :doh:

 

not many will reach that level.. and he can still have a great career but not reach THAT level

 

I can't get the image of Julian Jackson-Gerald McClellan II out of my head for that very reason. Their first fight was a gruesome slugfest, in which both men took heavy shots before G-Man prevailed. The second fight, well...

 

I think Kelly is a leetle chinny- not only did Taylor have him on queer street (I know Pavlik was showboating, but Taylor still had him reeling with the money shot) and Zuniga also hurt Pavlik, if memory serves.

I'm not saying he's glass jawed, you understand, but I certainly think it's a small weakness of his...

 

Yup! McClellan-Jackson II is whats in my head as well. Not that I expected Pavlik to blow Taylor away within a round, but it'll happen earlier this time. In the end it all comes down to a very simple thing... Pavlik can recover for Taylor's shots, and Jermain cant recover from Kelly's. Jermain is gonna get iced again, bet the house on it!

 

no doubt..
Kelly is gonna KO him, then get on top of him, mounting him and SODOMIZING HIM on live tv

 

Jackson v McClellan II? Come on. Yeah, this is a rematch and yeah they're middleweights....but it ends there. Thats a reach.

 

McClellan-Jackson 2 was a year later and the smaller, half-blind Jackson was on the downside anyway.

 

Exactly.

 

don't hand me that bull-shit. 50% of the perceived greatness attributed to RJJ was due to his careful match making.

and your counter point that Pavlik's never faced anyone like RJJ puts your argument on no less shaky ground than mine.

also, Hopkins has always been a hold and hit dirty fighter. Given the right opponent, a guy who's slower than him and predictable, he can win with grace. But under any significant duress, Hopkins has always used the stink to pull it out.

And proof that his stink isn't a function of his aging just watch Hopkins/Trinidad. He beat Tito with very little stink. He didn't need it. Tito was slow. Couldn't hurt him. Loaded up all night, and couldn't keep up with Hopkins.

But against a guy like Holmes, with superior boxing skills, Hopkins brings out the stink. It's just the way it is.

RJJ would orbit Pavlik like a rooster and leap in with left hooks and lead rights, which may or may not discourage Pavlik. But you can bet Pavlik would have his jab going and he would land his right hand and he would control the pace, at least in spots. I'd be interested to see how even a prime RJJ would respond to that.

You tend to over-simplify things with platitudes based on fighters' reputations. I prefer to brush those things aside and look strictly at the mechanics.

 

very few fighters with styles like Pavlik's don't visit the canvas on occasion.

and chinny fighters don't go toe to toe with Edison Miranda and come out on top (and not be knocked down by the way).

he's wreckless at times. i'd say that's a weakness of his. but i don't think he's chinny.

and we all know that if Pavlik hadn't been stupid and show-boating, he wouldn't have come close to being knocked down by Taylor.

it's like Trinidad. people called him chinny all the time, and yet he was stopped once and it wasn't even counted out - his father stepped in.

if ODH fought with the grit that Pavlik does he'd visit the canvas a whole lot more too. and we all know he has a good chin.

was Larry Holmes chinny? most people would say that he's not. and yet, he got knocked down plenty of times, and stopped by Tyson.

chinny is Zab Judah, or post-Tito Vargas - guys who lose their legs from a tap on the tip of their chin - something ain't right in their jaw. that's not Pavlik. or Tito.

 

Its not a question of Pavlik being discouraged by Roy's punches. Its a question of him not being able to HANDLE them! Theres a differance. If Taylor was able to put him on queer street, and nearly KO him, what did you thinks gonna happen when Roy lands? You can make all the excuses in the world for why Pavlik goes down but the bottom line is... his chin is vunerable, and his defense is highly questionable. Jones would be pretty much landing at will on him. And if we're talking about a YOUNG Jones, these arent just pot shots we're talking about. These are combinations with devestating power that would be landing. And although Roy wasnt THE most dedicated finisher around, you bet your ass he could finish off a guy better than Taylor could.

As for Pavlik's jab, has Kelly ever faced a fighter YET who wasnt stationary? The answer is no! Sure his jab looks great against Taylor cause Jermain is a brainless, clumsy oaf with poor footwork, and even worse head movement, but when faced with Roy's footwork, and elusivness who knows how effective Kelly's jab would be. And even if Pavlik could get off the jab against Roy, you can bet Jones would find a way to counter over it with right hands, something Taylor isnt capable of doing. Take the Hill fight for example. Its not the BEST analogy cause Pavlik, and Hill have different styles, however Hill did have an excellent jab. He tried to reach Jones with it, and quickly was lit up for trying with right hands over the jab. Speed kills my friend. And speed is something that Pavlik has yet to deal with it. Its easy to recover from KD's against slow bums, or wild amateurs like Taylor. Its another when you're being hit by an ultra fast, powerful, and ACCURATE puncher like Jones was.

 

If Taylor was a finisher Pavlik WOULD have been stopped. No question. It wasnt a flash KD where Kelly wasnt seriously hurt. He was in big trouble. He just lucked out cause Taylor is a sloppy SOB who blew his load.

 

rjj would fight terrified against pavlik - he has the temperment of a ballerina. if his quick-handed no-risk pot-shotting can't get it done, he's lost.

 

no. taylor landed plenty of followup shots. pavlik is durable and recuperates quickly. you're kidding yourself.

 

No. You're kidding yourself. If Taylor had stepped back, gone to the body, then came up with some uppercuts and STRAIGHT shots, the fight woulda been over. Instead he came in with wild, looping ass punches and smothered himself.

 

This is exactly why its impossible to debate RJ with your feeble mind. You have too much hate for him to think rationally in any matchup involving him.

 

you might be right. but as styles go, rjj's is pussy.

 

This coming from a DLH fan.:laughing:

 

how in the hell is ODH's style pussy? ODH didn't become the most famous boxer of this era by having a "pussy" style.

 

::

Gotta give him credit for trying X. Double L is relentless.

 

Double, come on man. You have way too much knowledge to spew this kind of stuff.

And the other 50% to what? His accomplishments, perhaps?

Dude, Clinton Woods-Kelly Pavlik is a great match-up. Woods-Jones? Not so much. And call me when Pavlik beats up on someone like James Toney.

Are we referring to a prime Hopkins here? This statement is absolutely, completely false.

Right. And he was 36. Perhaps you might want to amend your statement to, "Hopkins did what was necessary to win, given the opponent in front of him." Makes more sense, right?

Well if stink leads to 12 rounds to nothing, I'm sure every fighter would love some funk.

I love Pavlik - he's my new favorite fighter. He's also as flat-footed as it gets. If you think for one second that he's going to be able to get his jab going against the fleet-footed Roy - a prime Roy - you are sadly mistaken. Sh*t, Jermain Taylor managed to outbox Pavlik in spurts. Jermain F*cking Taylor! With half the speed and power of Jones, half the skill, half the BRAIN, and half the experience. Let's be real here.

Nice theory, if you actually did that. You don't - at least not in this case.

 

Well, I guess at the end of the day, Taylor will be blocking that jab with his face....just like he did in the first fight.

 

pics or it didnt happen
________
NEVADA MEDICAL MARIJUANA DISPENSARIES

 

dsimon writes:

Very few guys are really great finishers. Most guys get over anxious and if they get it they get it cause the ref stops it. Taylor was no worse than most people in the situation he was in.

The reason why Pavlik sustained the attack was because Pavlik did a good job fighting back. I don't think Taylor could have done anything more than he did.

 

dsimon writes:

So Ron is it worth putting a few Benjamins on Taylor on a long shot? what do the boys in vegas think?