If Cain wants to be the greatest...

Who said he wasn't rocked? I said never DOWN.

 

Then you could always throw in that Anderson had a rib injury and Chael was hyped up on steroids, but nevermind the facts.

 

Lol once again, everytime you open your mouth you look more stupid. If you knew anything about submissions you would know that Mark Hunt was nowhere near submitting Fedor with that weak attempt at an Americana.


And when the fuck did Sonnen win an Olympic silver medal? He was only an alternate, not the real deal like Mark Coleman was.

Jesus the shut that spews out of your mouth.

Gotta add that one to the list with -

"Why does Brock
Have cauliflower ear? He rarely gets hit."

Classic.

 

Owned ::

 

Did he really say Chael Sonnen is an Olympic Silver medalist?

I will give him the benefit of the doubt and ASSUME he meant World Championship silver medalist. Big difference.

That being said, Fedor fought Mark Coleman who also has World Championship second place finish. But Coleman, unlike Sonnen, ACTUALLY wrestled at the Olympics.

And help me out here, when Fedor faced an Olympic wrestler was he treated like a rag doll for 5 rounds? No, he made Coleman beg for mercy in the first round.

But let's go a little deeper. I also remember Fedor facing Matt Lindland who was INDEED an Olympic Silver Medalist. Yes, that's right, not bullshit from a kid's mouth, but fact. Lindland won an Olympic Silver Medal. And again, Fedor made him cry in under a round.

So the bottom line TLC, Fedor has faced not one but two wrestlers with as good or better backgrounds in wrestling and MMA than Sonnen. Fedor didn't struggle. He didn't get beaten for 5 rounds. He sent both guys back to the locker rooms feeling lucky to still have their arms.

It's funny, Sonnen was the first good wrestler Silva faced and Silva couldn't deal with it. Fedor, on the other hand, made quick work of the top wrestlers he faced.

 

didnt this chap sonnen test positive for a banned substance?

 

i agree w/ most of what you said except dan henderson was also an accomplished college wrestler and an olympian. silva fucked him up.

 

Henderson has been on a steep downward slide since the Wanderlei win. That wasn't the same Dan.

 

Ah my 1st post here. Well, after reading the TS comments I am going to assume that this is a troll job. And a poor one at that. To discredit a fighter with 33 wins and only 1 LEGIT loss is in poor taste. To call him a fraud is absolutely pathetic.

Essentially there are 2 types of MMA fans: Those who admire Fedor for what he acomplished during a remarkable, unprecedented and unreplicated run. And then there are those that dont.

TLC - you claim that MW has the most talent? Geezus, kid - thats been the weakest division throughout the history of MMA. Recently, some new talent (in the last 2-3 yrs) has emerged to make it more competitive, but its still lacking star quality. The UFC hype machine is great at hyping fighters (CHAMPS EVEN) that run in circles and impersonate Kalib Starnes. My guess is that you are new to this sport and only read history of MMA form internet sites. EVERY FIGHTER EVER INTERVIEWED says UNANIMOUSLY that Fedor is a mythical beast.

Bob - ur right, this guy has a lot of blind hate.

Triplsec - classy posts, u sir are correct on many levels.

 

he still managed to get by franklin and looked impressive in nearly killing michael bisping. that and he wasn't on roids when he fought silva ::

 

Joon--- I talked about Henderson's wrestling in the lead up to the Sonnen-Silva fight. Before Sonnen, Henderson was the best (only) stud amateur wrestler that Silva had faced. The problem is that Henderson had not relied on his wrestling in MMA for a long time. At the point he faced Silva, Henderson was not an MMA fighter that made a living taking people down and keeping them there.

Sonnen, on the other hand, was nothing but a wrestler. He made no bones about the fact that he was going to shoot from the open bell. And he did. Silva had no answer for it until midway through the final round. Even then the answer was off his back.

I'm not saying that Lindland or Coleman were Olympic-caliber wrestlers when they faced Fedor. But both guys relied almost exclusively on their wrestling. Neither had become the feared puncher that Henderson was.

No question that Dan Henderson is as accomplished an amateur wrestler that has ever stepped in an MMA cage. But to the Henderson that faced Silva, wrestling was almost an after thought or at best a Plan C.

Fo

 

can't ignore fedor's accomplishments when some of these new guys that are supposedly better have less than 10 wins let alone a title streak.

fedor's been fighting for years and like other athletes who have background in judo or wrestling, he's competed and dominated the sport of sambo as well.

not exactly what i'd call a fraud.

i'd like to see him redeem himself vs werdum and possibly fight overeem.

 

TLC - one last thing for you to digest before you try to add to a 2700+ post count.....

Coleman has won 2 Open-weight Grand Prix'
CroCop has won it once.

That means that in one night they fought 4 times and were the best fighter in their org that evening. Fedor then finishes them both. Convincingly. Period.

In that same org (PRIDE) A Silva had 3 losses, one of which to Ryo Chonan who is the 'asian punching bag' of MMA. Pls go finish writing your spelling words 5 times each and study your multiplication tables for school tomorrow before you post such nonsense on here again.

 

But from a wrestling perspective, Bisping-Henderson never saw the mat as far as I can remember.

There were a couple of Henderson take downs in the Franklin fight but Dan won the fight in the striking exchanges and not with wrestling.

 

true, henderson also relies heavily on his punching power. but against jackson, we saw a lot of wrestling as well. i thought henderson won the first round vs silva just by takedowns alone.

it's not like henderson lost because he didn't use his wrestling enough in the second round. it was simply negated by silva's speed and defense.

i also think that silva looked pretty shitty in general when he fought sonnen. he was losing even in shorts instances when they were standing up. basically, sonnen owned him in every aspect except when he got choked at the end. perhaps age attributed to that as well.

but yea, i dont necessarily disagree that sonnen was the best pure wrestler silva fought.

 

Henderson is getting old but is also really inconsistent at 185lbs. Still, a solid win for Silva though. I think Silva's streak in the UFC is a bit overrated, but you can't knock the guy. He's beaten everybody they've put in front of him. His consistency is impressive. A lot of guys in MMA have trouble with that.

 

I agree. That's why I hate getting into the Silva-Fedor debate. They have each accomplished great things and both are among the very best to ever compete in MMA. I do not want to diminish anything Silva has done.

The problem is when someone calls Fedor a fraud while turning around and calling Silva the GOAT. Their accomplishments are on par with each other. Each has had amazing streaks of consistency which is unheard of in MMA among the top guys.

So you can make legitimate arguments for either guy being the GOAT. However, the thing that is absolutely moronic is to call either guy a fraud.

 

Good post, agreed.

 

My thoughts exactly! :Thumbs:

 

And within the parameters of this debate it's very easy to pick apart the quality of Silva's opponents, just as there are those that pick apart what Fedor has done. The whole thing is shameful really. It went from "To be the best, Cain needs to beat...." to an attempt at defaming a legend. fft:

 

+1. I now see why you are called the Godfather.

 

Again, I hate debating this because I am a fan of what both guys have done.

That being said, never losing a fight in 12 UFC bouts is as impressive as anything anyone has done in the sport.

When people talk about level of competition, it is always subjective. However, the UFC has continued to feed Silva the best 185 has to offer and he just beats them.

Fedor's consistency has been even better, but he hasn't had the top guys, in the top organization being fed to him fight after fight.

Personally I would put Fedor slightly ahead of Silva as well. But I don't think saying their accomplishments are 'on par' with each other is that far off.

 

At the time, Pride WAS the better organization as far as the HW's were concerned.

 

yep. by a landslide.

 

Agreed.I don't even remember a debate about it.

 

And when did the UFC 185 division became great? I not even sure it was the 2nd best weight class in the UFC when Silva stepped foot in it .

 

Not a single ounce of argument from me on that one. The problem is that Fedor's streak spans more than just his fights in Pride.

Here's my problem. If I listed the top 10 MW's in the world at this very moment, Silva has probably beaten 5 or more of them. If I did the same with the current top 10 HW's, I would guess Fedor hasn't beaten any of them.

Obviously ranking fighters is subjective, but here are what I would consider the best HW's in the world:

1 Velasquez
2 Emelianenko
3 Dos Santos
4 Lesnar
5 Overeem
6) Werdum
7)Carwin
8) Mir
9)Barnett
10 Nelson or Big Foot

Again, from a HW perspective Pride was the shit when Fedor ruled. But that was only part of what he's done as a whole. Since Pride, his opponents haven't been world beaters.

And remember, I think Fedor is easily the GOAT. But like I told TLC on the flip side of this debate, to think either guy is a fraud or undeserving of P4P recognition is just uninformed.