If Floyd beats Hatton and then the winner of Mosley/Cotto

That's because you're a Floyd groupie. Anything he does will make you want to cum in your pants. If somebody like Derrick Gainer or Tarver pulled that same sh*t, you'd be going "Man what's this boring sh*t, turn off the tv!"
Sorry dsimon, I still respect you.:: :tease:

 

Oscar is dead after 12 at his peak, and he beats Benitez in 15?
Would not happen, bro.
Benitez was a much superior athlete and fighter.

 

So, often, did Whitaker. So, often, did Pep.

Same with Muhammad Ali. Jack Johnson was often the master of the punch 'n' grab.

Locche fought that way at times, too.

Robinson often fought that way as he got older and got into higher weight divisions.

Kid Gavilan loved to fight that way.

There is a difference between STYLES...and RESULTS.

There are certain styles and mindsets I prefer in a fighter too, Hanzy.

But that shouldn't get in the way of evaluating a fighter's greatness based on his actual accomplishments in the ring; regardless of how we "wished" he would have gone about getting them.

Peace.

 

dsimon writes:

You are a hater Hanzy Singh!!:nono: :: You just want to see pretty boy splattered on the canvas like Roy! Floyd has plenty of charisma! He even hangs out with the likes of Fifty cents!! He has gold teeth and a nice sly smile. Why are you jealous? Tell the truth about how Floyd beat you in the ammy's Hanzy!! I know for a fact because Gerald Tucker was the ref! He did not mean to knock your turban off Btw, sometimes thats the way shit rolls. So let it go already.

The UFC? Floyd's hands are registered as deadly weapons, one hit and it would be all over. You keep it up and Floyd will sue you for slander and he will throw Double L at you!

I know all this stuff for a fact because Neil told me.:tease:

 

Agreed.

“The main idea is to learn how to win without getting hurt.â€￾

"What I want is to do the best I can, make all the money I can, without getting hurt. To me, it's the art of self-defense."- Willie Pep

Being conservative or even boring shouldn't affect his all-time ranking. But he needs to fight and beat some of the top guys at 147 (and Hatton) in the future.

 

::

 

If every boxer had that mentality, Erratic, this sport would've been dead more than 100 years ago. It wouldn't even exist.
Thank god there's only a few chicken f*cks out there with that mindset. It's one thing to win without getting hurt, it's another to throw a punch and run the f*ck away to the other side of the ring and acting like it's some amazing showing of skill. Nobody wants to see that crap.
There's a reason why guys like Floyd Jr couldn't get a PPV spot till recently, despite all his success and championships won, whereas a kid like Tyson at 18 was tearing up the world because he not only could be a defensive wizard but could knock guys the f*ck out and he fascinated the public.
Floyd Jr is junk. He'll never be anything more than a good boxer. He'll be forgotten within 5 years after he's retired.
He acts like he wants to be in the pocket and Knock somebody out but he's scared sh*tless. He just talks a lot is all he does. Like his old man and all the other Mayweathers out there. Talking ghetto and acting hard.

 

You are comparing a HEAVYWEIGHT in the mid-80's to early-90's....to a jr. lightweight-welterweight after 2000?

Now I know you're just spewing hate. ::

And you are way over-stating the point.

Give it a rest, Hanz....I've never seen you this worked up. ::

 

dsimon writes:

Its kind of fun getting Hany worked up. I get the impression he is none to fond of Floyd, probably due to Floyd's style? opcorn:

 

What does him being dull at times, or not being a popular fighter, have to do with him all-time ranking if he gets the job done?

His resume and wins are what's important in ranking him all-time. He's got some ways to go, but he has a chance to improve his ranking with all the fine fighters at 147 (and Hatton @ 140).

Being a PPV draw means next to nothing in ranking a guy all-time. Tyson was basically a fraud post-prison, but sold PPVs like crazy.

 

dsimon writes:

I am glad people responded to this absurd comparison and saved me the time and effort. De La Hoya is constantly overrated IMO. He has the virtue of being able to fight at the elite level, but he does not excel there and is really just a professional opponent at that level, as evidenced by his record in title fights.

Benitez was one of the best. When he took his training seriously I would put him as perhaps one of the best ever.

 

Hanzy is a dumb fan..

just like guys that don't know jack about MMA "hate" when they are on the ground trying to get a choke or joint lock..

casual ignorant fans like guys that swing wildly and KO each other..

you have to be "IN" to boxing to appreciate what guys like Floyd do

I think he is one of the masters..

if you guys have ever fought guys like Floyd or just real good boxers.. it is very frustrating to try and get someone and they can just easily move and counter and are so so relaxed in there.. Floyd is so calm, just natural, he is a real boxing master

Hanzy.. you are like the ignorant fan.. the guy that is real real into football or basketball and doesn't know jack about boxing. guys that like to see bums just swing wildly with no defense..

 

I agree that he's been pretty conservative. I think it had to due with the fact that DLH is a bigger guy who had the advantage in power. Also in the Baldomir fight, Floyd said her hurt his hand in the middle rounds and couldn't be as aggressive as he would have wanted to. That probably had something to due with it.

 

Come on LOK. Remember in school when we were talking about how awesome Hearns was when he knocked that chump the f*ck out with 1 right hand flush saturday night, when we came to class on Monday morning? THAT was what boxing was about. Where guys left their sweat and tears and blood in the ring.
That's what we'd talk about at school, real fights, real wars.
Nobody ever talked about how beautiful some little chicken sh*t boxer was when he was tap dancing all over the ring trying to avoid a battle and then talking mad sh*t like he could go knock anybody the f*ck out.
Please! :doh:

 

So then what the f*ck did EVERYBODY on fightbeat have a grudge against John Ruiz for when Ruiz was winning fights? If it's all about getting the job done, then why didn't Ruiz get the admiration of the fans on here like Floyd is doing?
Bottom line is, crap like that isn't worth our money. The people who bought Floyd/Baldomir, the people who bought Floyd/Oscar, all the articles that were written in the sports papers kept alluding to the fact that boxing really was dead with sh*tty fights like this making the airwaves on ppvs, charging customers 50-60 bucks and for what? To see some little sh*t try to dance away from a fight using a hit and move strategy?
That's garbage!!!!

 

I'm not talking about admiration. I'm talking about how Mayweather is ranked when he retires. If he gets the job done against more of the top guys around his weight class in the future, then he should go down as an ATG.

A fighter doesn't have to be entertaining or score KOs to be great.

And John Ruiz has been given grudging respect, for the most part, for his success from 2000-05. As he was out of the HW picture, people hated him less since he wasn't polluting their eyes, so they gave him more credit.

Besides, it's not like Mayweather is consistenly boring, or consistent in being an extremely cautious fighter.

 

If a fighter is boring as crud, then what admiration could he possibly get from the fans? If you fight like sh*t and rob people of their money, what respect do you deserve? Boxing is not just about going in there and winning and stinking out the place. Much of boxing relies on performance. Do you think Manny Pacquio would be getting all that hype if he fought like Ruiz? Do you think Tyson would've amounted to anything if he fought like Chris Byrd?
Let's get real.:doh: Floyd in 2 consecutive performances stunk out the place and had the fans leaving long before the end of the fight. What does that even tell you? Does it not tell you that Floyd Jr is NOT worthy of being on PPV? He fought on free HBO for years and years. That's what he is, a free-tv fighter. He can duck, slip, slide, counter all he wants on free-tv in a little half-filled arena. It's just not possible for any fighter to fight that way in a bitch manner on a $50 ppv in a packed 20,000 seat arena.

 

you just pointed out 75 % of the posters here, alot of ignorance

 

:: Funny you say that when you yourself would never spend a dime to watch f*cking Floyd Jr doing his pansy sh*t in the ring.

 

i bought both pay per views, i admit, the baldomir fight i thought he could have taken more chances

 

That's a delicate way of putting it. You know you were cursing and wanted to throw your beer through your tv after watching that pile of sh*t, Mass.::

 

Stay on the subject. I'm not talking about PPV sales. I'm not talking about admiration from the fans, or popularity. I'm talking about where he would rank all-time, which is what the thread title is about.

It doesn't (or shouldn't) hurt his ranking if he wins his future fights in a cautious manner, but wins them clearly (without controversy).

If he's not worthy of being PPV in your mind, then simply don't buy them and wait for the HBO replay. Hell, I only ordered (or went to a bar) for two of his four PPV fights.

Bernard Hopkins has stunk out more PPVs and been equally or maybe less entertaining than Mayweather. He's still great.

 

Great to who, YOU? Great to the few boxing fans left in the world? How many years did it take before fans finally discovered that Hopkins even existed? For years he was fighting in seclusion, nobody knew or cared about him. It was only till he got the trinidad fight where his stock rose and people started paying attention to him. And even then, he still gave crud performances. He made a lot of guarantees in the Taylor fights and still fought cautiously as if scared sh*tless that he might get KTFO.
His last fight with Wright was crap, his fight with that french dude was humiliating for the sport. His fight with Eastman was awful.
Why do you think fighters like Hops, Wright, Byrd, Floyd Jr etc are at the lower tier of PPV draws? Why do you think it took them so many years to get the attention they craved?
Nobody cares about where he ranks all time. If he wasn't respected by the fans because he was dull as sh*t, then no amount of titles will change that.

 

Yes, great to boxing geeks/historians. Hopkins will go down as a great, regardless of how boring he often was.

And Mayweather's and Hopkins PPV numbers are not anywhere in the area of Byrd. Floyd does 300k plus against the likes of Baldomir and Judah. Hopkins does 300k against Winky, and more than that against Taylor.

Byrd couldn't sell Norco to Ike.

 

You keep confusing and lumping in historical ranking/placement with PPV draws, "excitement", popularity, drawing power, attention, blah, blah, etc.

The point is WHO IS GREATEST. In terms of their accomplishments and career in the ring.

Do you think Gatti is greater than Whitaker or Pep? Is he? Does he rank higher all time?

What about Whitaker? Pep? Jack Johnson? Muhammad Ali? Robinson later in his career? Kid Gavilan? Locche? Canto?

Hell, LEWIS, who often took a cautious, measured approach, especially later in his career?

Hell, MONZON, one of the most revered, was a very methodical, jab-first fighter who LOVED to control and slow down the pace of fights...many of his bouts are by no means "exciting."

But that doesn't mean what he did and how he did it can't be appreciated.

I can appreciate your frustration with certain styles. But that has little to do with where a fighter ranks in terms of all-time greatness.

As to "who cares?" History does. And plenty of people still do. Boxing is very big in Latin America, Asia, Europe....it's definitely a global sport. And it's still plenty big enough in America.

All sports, big or small, have statistics, historical placement and record books.

It is the way to measure and honor those who excel in the sport; regardless of how "popular" it is.

Peace.

 

Hanzy just quit, go photoshop someone, you're out of your league here. You're getting owned. ::

 

Nobody gets owned for having an opinion, mate.:: Donnybrook, MassaCure, Erratic, etc can continue blabbering on and on about historical placement and all that sh*t for as long as they like, the bottom line is Floyd Jr, Winky Wright, Bernard Hopkins, etc will always be considered dull safety-first boring fighters by the masses who could give 2 sh*ts about boxing history and the HOF. Performance is what's key. What's stopping so many boxers from fighting defensively? Hell if every boxer's intention was to win by any means possible, they'd take the Ruiz approach and just jab and then hug like hell and try to stink out a win.
There's such a thing as giving the fans their money's worth. Sometimes you have to drop the whole 'hit and run' routine and gut out a win. If fans are leaving the arena DURING a fight, then there's a serious problem.
Look at Hopkins' BS taunts about how he was gonna make a statement against Taylor in the rematch and extract revenge. He makes all these stupid guarantees and then come fight time, he does the same safety-first boring sh*t that he did in the first fight and loses another decision.
Where was the improvement? What happened to all those guarantees? Again he stunk out the place. Same with Floyd Jr. Floyd goes on and on about how he was gonna knock the f*ck out of Baldomir. What happens? He hits and runs like a girl, scared of any type of exchange. The fans start exiting 3/4 into the fight.
Pathetic! A sport that's already hurting like hell from overpriced ppvs and weak cards only gets thrown deeper into the hole.
The few boxing fans who give a crap about legacies and historical placement don't realize that none of this sh*t will matter if the sport of boxing is reduced to what seems will be its ultimate demise. A sport of yesteryear which nobody will give a sh*t about.
Hopkins needs to take Steward's advice and f*ck off out of the sport. Same with Winky Wright. They're too old and pathetic to give out any type of decent performance. All the matches that are being made are matches that should've happened years ago.
What do you have now? Trinidad vs f*cking Roy Jones Jr? That's like having Ken Shamrock vs Don Frye and selling it as a big ppv. Ridiculous! Boxing is clinging on by a thread and sh*t fights like Floyd/Baldomir and Floyd/Oscar and Hopkins/Wright aren't doing the sport any good.

 

::

Boxing is just fine, Hanzy.

Reports of its demise are greatly exaggerated.

And I don't think that either Erratic or Massa or I are suggesting that all fighters fight 'safety-first' or 'defensively.'

You continue to directly dodge the questions I have posed in my last two posts, bro.

I have styles I prefer; and my preference runs to the more aggressive, boxer-puncher style where offense & defense are equally balanced - but if I have to choose, a bias towards aggression. :crafty:

However, that does not mean I cannot appreciate the technical skill and talent involved in other styles and approaches.

But you are talking two very different points and insist on mixing them up.

That is the problem.

Historical placement/standing and ranking are ONE thing - and a very specific one at that. That applies to ALL sports, and "popularity" of said sport has little to do with it.

Excitement and what should be done - and how fighters should fight - to increase the mainstream appeal of boxing to the general population and mainstream media - is quite another.

There will ALWAYS be fighters who are more TV-friendly and have a more "action-packed" style than others. ALWAYS.

Boxing will always have that variety and diversity. Fighters will always fight to their natural strengths and advantages and to their natural instincts/tendencies.

Would you have recommended that Lewis 'stand in the pocket' and brawl with Tua? Would you really recommend PBF to discount defense and stand and trade with DLH at 154 lbs.?

Guess what? You need them ALL. That's what makes it boxing.

I agree we need quality fights that are evenly matched - not re-treads. ANd sure, exciting, offensive-minded aggressive fighters will likely draw more mainstream appeal.

But the day boxing has to become a WWE-type circus -- or the day it becomes nothing more than a glorified Toughman contest -- that's the day I stop being a fan.

I am a fan of the sweet SCIENCE - not the street brawl.

And btw, in its heyday; boxing also was about the sweet science, too.

There IS a difference between a boxer-puncher who shows good defense & technique....and a safety-first potshotter; and I can criticize potshotters as much as anyone.

But sometimes; that's what a boxer needs to do to win a fight, whether we like it or not.

Not every fight can be Corrales-Castillo I.

Peace.

 

I never demanded Hagler/Hearns and Corrales/Castillo type wars. All I was saying is that some boxers need to try and give a sh*t about how they go about doing their business rather than just doing the bare minimum and playing it safe and hoping for a decision win.
Lewis could've done a million times more than what he did against Tua. Were you not around on the boards in 2000? There was a tremendous backlash towards Lewis' effort and even people on here right now would agree that Lewis could've done so much more against a slow heavybag rather than jabbing for 12 rounds and boring everybody to death.
Hops, Floyd, Byrd, and Winky are all guilty of the same thing.
That's why all of these guys never got the attention that other fighters got early in their careers. It took a hell of a long time for Hopkins and Winky and Floyd and Lewis to get their respect for their achievements.

 

:bears: :bears: :bears: