IF Floyd dominates Oscar....

No, YOU are absurd for suggesting that it is absurd for Ali to rank higher than Duran. What's the matter with you?

P4P, Ali is about the fastest moving fighter in history (exceedingly light on his feet for a man over 200lbs)...only Jones, Pep, Mayweather and a handful of others shared his speed of reflexes and his quality of beaten opposition is largely unmatched. Not to mention his handspeed, chin, heart, smarts, adaptibility, stamina, ability to take punishment and dish it out.

This Ali denigrating has to stop!

He may be just above a vegetable nowadays...but don't forget that this man virtually ruled the SPORT for two decades!!

 

Rubio, I generally agree with you dude, but this is just bullshit. Oscar has shown ZERO signs of being shot.:notallthere:

 

there's no doubt ODH would beat Spinks and Karmazin.

Simms would be a tough fight but I think he'd beat him too.

The only guy I'd probably favor over ODH is Ouma.

Anyways, this is an indictment of PBF, not ODH. If ODH isn't anywhere near the best, why is PBF fighting him? And what does it mean if he wins?

 

IMO, it means he fought a former p4p guy who was past his best but whose value in the marketplace predominantly kept him relevant in most people's divisional standings...if he stays and fights the likes of simms, ouma etc., great, otherwise its not a very meaningful stay at 154 IMO...

 

I don't think there's any guarantee that Oscar (today) beats any of them, to be honest. Yes, he's naturally better, but none are going to serve as human punching bags like Mayorga. Karmazin is basic, but tough as hell. Simms' only detterent is inactivity.

DLH-Spinks would be interesting, only because both have crappy stamina. It would basically come down to who's ahead after eight rounds.

Um... for $12 million, or whatever he stands to make. His making $8 million against a guy like Baldomir was a one-time deal. Otherwise, he makes more than twice as much against Oscar than he would against anyone else in/near the division (except maybe Shane).

It means that he's still undefeated, still P4P best, and $12 million richer.

 

So if he had just taken his beating, knowing fine well he was in no shape mentally or physically to compete he would be number 1? Thats a power of Bullshit man. Listen, if Greb had a broken arm and knew fine well he couldn't possibly win it might well make him a greater & more admirable man (*maybe*), but it certainly doesn't make him a greater boxer; boxing I remind you being a sport where success is defined in the winning and losing of boxing matches.

The only argument that could possibly be made for penalizing Duran more for saying 'no mass' rather than sucking up his decision loss would be that we might infer some sort of cowardice or lack of fighting heart from it; cowardice which might reflect badly on the rest of his career. You can do that with Acelino Freitas, Mike Tyson or even Kostya Tszyu. To do it with Duran is just fucking absurd.

In reality your only holding it against him because it rankles a romantic notion of the boxer as noble gladiator, nothing to do with his ability to win or lose fights.

1. Robinson
2. Armstrong
3. Duran

 

Karmazin is no better than Castillejo. And ODH wiped his ass with him.

And Spinks? Come on. ODH would walk Spinks down and punish him.

Simms, it's tough to say.

There's no guarantee. I agree with you there. But you'd have to make him the favorite over those guys.

 

Duran accomplished a lot more and was better P4P. Did you see Ali's fights with Norton, Young etc? His only good win is Foreman, that was impressive. When they were both prime, frazier smoked him.

Ali is the most ridiculosly overrated fighter ever. He was as much personality and public figure as sportsman, and that fools casual boxing fans such as yourself.

 

Is that the same Castillejo who KO'ed and subsequently narrowly lost to
Felix Sturm, who in turn made De la look foolish for much of their bout ?

Doesn't work that way...I would slightly favor Spinks over de la if they were to fight this weekend, when's the last time de la hoya fought a guy with comparable movement? You can't just turn it on and off, saturday will illustrate that quite clearly IMO

 

doesn't work that way? i make no mention of the fact that Castillejo beat Karmazin. that wasn't my point. the point i am making is that he's no better than Castillejo (based on criteria other than the fact that he lost to him).

 

So more MEANINGFUL fights would be Margarito, Mosley, Cotto at 147, Hatton, rematch with Castillo at 140?

Is that the reason he preannounced his retirement? Because he doen't want to lose that "O"?

Hopkins only fought the big money fights LATE in his career, but while waiting he CLEANED UP his division.

If at the end of the day, he fought EVERYBODY meaningful in multiple divisions, and has nobody LEFT, then it's ok to retire and be considered a GREAT.

But who aside from us, really knows who the heck Floyd Mayweather jr. is? They will get a glimpse this Saturday but the irony is he says he is GONE after this and his ONLY megafight...

 

Dude....

Duran beat Leonard..ONCE out of three times...his best ever win. However against the three greatest fighters in his era (Hagler, Hearns and Leonard) his record is 1-4 (stopped twice).

He lost to Benitez (the other great fighter of his era) and when he was still close to prime...lost to Kirkland Laing.

Ali had beaten everyone he ever fought until he was 38 and already had signs of Parkinson's and during this time beat...

Liston, Patterson, Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Shavers, Quarry, Ellis, Foster, Bugner, Cooper...basically ALL THE NAMES in the heavyweight division for the 60s and 70s.

 

Hearns' only win in Fab Four matchups came against a 154 lb. version of Duran - who incase you don't recall, spent a decade or so at lightweight before moving up to challenge the much younger Leonard and Hearns, at their natural/optimal weight classes.

Mind you, I'm not necessarily disagreeing that Ali should be considered greater. Just that you have a knack for offering simplistic views on... well, just about every topic, it seems

 

I don't always have the time to expand in depth...being at work most of the time. That's why it may appear "simplistic".

But in response:

We're not comparing Duran with Hearns....but Duran with Ali...so that first paragraph is completely irrelevant.

So I may have been simplistic...but you have just been not on point at all...

 

:: Pull the other one, staff. You're on this board 24/7, and yet you don't have time to 'expand'.

 

Save your nonsense for the early morning gurdwara chanting and leave the boxing discussion to me...

 

Isn't this a prejudice comment towards my race?:dunno:

 

No...just harmless fun

 

:: cool. Now back to the discussion....

 

My point was that Duran was past his prime before he even had his first Fab Four matchup, to counter your citing his 1-4 record in the series as proof that he was inferior to Ali.

You rattle off everyone Ali beat at heavyweight, yet leave Duran's entire pre-Leonard career out of the mix.

 

Anyway...

My whole point...is that it is ludicrous for anyone to take issue with another person who claims that Ali is greater than Duran.

It's not as though it is crystal clear either way. Ya get me?

 

that's fine, I can agree with that.

 

this cracked me up!!!

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

 

I'm more of a Leonard guy. It takes a certain kinda guy for me to dig the whole "asshole" thing. Duran just rubs me the wrong way. Don't get me wrong, he was great... probably top-10 all-time.