If Foreman would not have lost to Ali.....

Would he have gone on to break Marciano's record? At the time he had fought Ali, he was 40-0 with 37 ko's..... That was impressive as hell in it's own right! Not only would he have at least matched the record, but his knockout percentage would have probably been just as outrageous.

Finally, providing he would have at least tied Marciano's record, would his resume have been equal to or better than Marciano's? He would have only had Ali, Frazier and Norton on his record at the time and would have been 41-0, AFTER the Ali fight. Hell, based on Marciano's record against old guys and light heavies, I think those three names (Ali, Frazier and Norton) would be enough to trump Marciano's record as it stood!

 

Probably. Hard to say though...George was a weird guy. Something else could have happened to him.

But if he did break the record his resume poops on Marciano's.

 

Young would have beat him

 

foremen wuld be bettar in my mind i think

 

I'm not sure he'd have kept it together long enough to defend another 9 times. Holmes would have been a huge potential banana skin, too.

 

Does anything think Foreman might have beaten Ali under different circumstances? Did the heat and psychological pressure of Africa play much part?

 

I think so yeah. Great win for Ali but Foreman fought like a total retard and didn't seem quite with it mentally.

I also agree I'm not sure he'd keep it together for another 9 defenses.

 

Foreman would be undefeated if there were no "lose ropes"

 

ali cheted he had fibrglas jaw

 

he lost to dog jones norton 3x frazier 2x shaver he cheated against cooper by tearing his gloves and losen the ropes against foremen why i never seen a ring with so lose ropes as that before a bum beribck beat his ass ali is a good figther but has to cheat to him what kind of #ucking legend is that you guys are losers botomline

 

i nevr seen foremen got tired so fast ropes was loosse ring was a leetel spoongee

 

i think this is right in my mind. tyxson woud have kill him when he get him in trouble also accept now its to late for him. #ucing bich

 

I think he would have been a favorite in every fight leading up to and passing the record and his resume was already better than Marciano's.

Old Holmes beats Old Foreman, but 70's Foreman beats Holmes and everyone else back then.

 

Plus Holmes didn't really get a crack at big fights until early '78 when he finally got the Shavers fight. That's a pretty big window for George to rack up some defenses, even if Holmes was better.

 

I highly doubt it, even though Foreman is better than Marciano. Some people dismiss the Lyle and Young ( and Ali to a lesser degree ) fights as him not being himslelf. Imo, these were much more closer to the real Foreman than the Frazier and Norton fights were. A huge powerfull guy with a awesome jab, but someone very flawed too ( something he corrected in his later incarnation )

 

Everything was working against Foreman in Zaire. He couldn't spar due to being cut. There's the issue with the loose ring ropes, and the alleged drugging.

If they fought in Las Vegas or MSG, Foreman batters Ali brutally and history views them both in totally different lights.

To me the proof has always been in the fact that Ali avoided a rematch like it was a military draft. He wanted no part of facing Foreman again. Despite Foreman going M.I.A. , when you look at the garbage Ali faced between Zaire and Manilla, the rematch would have been the biggest fight possible.

And Young and Lyle are non-issues if Foreman is undefeated without the mental beating suffered in Zaire. If you throw in cheap defenses against the likes of Wepner and Bugner, Big George easily gets to 49-0.

 

you guys really think he'd beat Young?

Young gets underated...the guy beat Ali and Foreman ffs

 

To me, Ali (as long as he was still good) beats Foreman every time. Ali was too mentally tough for Foreman. As big and strong and dangerous as Foreman was, he was a bit fragile mentally and Ali did all he could to take advantage of that. And Foreman, during his first career, never really fully recovered from the loss to Ali

But...if Ali was not on the scene....I could see Foreman ruling the division for quite a while. And I don't think Jimmy Young beats him if Ali doesn't do it first. Who was going to beat Foreman? Young? Nope. Lyle? Nope. Shavers? Nope. Norton? Nope. Frazier? Nope.

The only heavy who might have taken Foreman in the 70's was Holmes. And I'm not even so entirely sure about that. The fight not taking place until the late 70's would work in Holmes' favor.

 

And Foreman's, if his goal was to rack up title defenses.

 

Holmes would beat the dog shit out of Foreman. He'd win 100 out of 100. Foreman ducked his ass even when he was older. Foreman was one of the most dominant, not the best. His resume is awesome though. He treated Norton and Frazier like they were bugs that needed a squashing. I doubt any attacking fighter could beat FOREMAN in history..the younger Foreman. A guy like Holmes who had good foot speed and a jab, would just box his big dumb ears off. I wonder if a vaginal pussy style like Lennox would have troubled him?I have the feeling LENNOX would get stopped.

 

I actually think Foreman's chances increase if the fight took place earlier in the decade. Holmes' competition was weak before the Shavers and Norton fights. I don't know that Holmes had the experience to handle Big George earlier in his career. But after the Shavers and (especially) Norton fights, I would give him a better shot based on the experience he gained.

Holmes was a good boxer, but he could be hit hard and hurt...as in the Weaver, Shavers and Snipes fights. And if he got into that kind of trouble against Foreman, I don't see him getting off the hook quite so easily.

This isn't to say I would definitely pick Foreman, but I also don't believe that Holmes is a slam-dunk winner either.

 

:l2:

 

I don't think Foreman beats Ali under any circumstance

 

do you think the Holmes that fought Norton would have beaten Foreman though?

 

Fuck no...we don't need excuses.. Ali was the man

 

Foreman definitely got more circumspect and ponderous after Zaire but he was very hard to stay away from, up to then. Holmes probably has the exact same problems Ali does trying to box and move.

By 77 I think Holmes wins

 

It's ridiculous to say Ali ducked a rematch..

Ali was already old and borderline shot when he fought George

 

Ali really should have retired after Zaire

 

I think he gets a little overrated tbh.. based on a badly faded Ali and a lesser version of Foreman.

 

But foreman did not fight much differently than he fought the other opponents he had. He just came straight ahead and winged his punches. He did not use much of a jab against Frazier or Norton. Maybe if those two were to withstand his punches for more than 2 rounds, he would have been doing the same things he did against Ali.

He did have a good jabs, but he used it and was dominant against lesser fighters.