If Lewis/Vitaly fight wasn't stopped. Who would have won ?

Welcome back, dymipepel :notallthere:

 

Well....in 1977, and with a "fighter of the year" accolade behind him, George Foreman, now supposedly recovered from the debacle of Zaire, and a good deal older, lost a 12 rounder to Jimmy Young, and was floored in round 12.

 

I don't think that is Dym. It's some British kid that has been spending far too long on the www.davidgaye.com website.

 

Ummmm...he crushed both Frazier and Norton, who had both beaten Ali, in two rounds each.

And '74 Foreman losing to Moorer??? Ugh. Please stop.

 

Ummmmmmmmmmm fighting those guys and ummmmmmmmmmmmm fighting Ali was ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm not the ummmmmmmmmmmm same thing

 

Did Irish really say that Moorer would have beaten '74 FOreman? I didn't read this anywhere. If he did..please point it out to me..and I'll rally to have him banned for one week...

 

Nice try, but your original statement was wrong. Norton, and especially Frazier were far more than "decent" opposition. And these two fighters were Ali's two toughest rivals...to say they "were nowhere as good as Ali" is inaccurate. Frazier and Norton were a great and a very good heavy who handed Ali his first and second career losses and gave Ali all he wanted in other fights.

And you didn't say "fighting those guys and fighting Ali was not the same thing in your original post. You are now backtracking to this due to the complete inaccuracy of what I highlighted from your post.

 

Here you go...

 

Get the fuck outta here, broadway hoe.hno:hno:

Obviously, fighting Ali and fighting Norton/Frazier were totally different things for Foreman.

And naturally so........as Ali was the greatest, and they were not.

 

Wow. I mean......Moorer has a win over Holyfield. Is it such a leap of imagination to see a young, dumb Foreman get in there, blow his load and then spend the rest of the fight plodding after a sharper, smarter Moorer who was conditioned to go 12??

Foreman lost to Jimmy Young in 1977 despite having a "FOTY" 1976. Obviously, feasting on Scott Le Douche, a wasted Joe Frazier, Dino Dennis etc did not prepare him for the monstrosity of pugilistic excellence that was Jimmy "You Get Stung" Young.

 

I have never seen a fighter get so much mileage out of brutal TKO loss, as Vitaly does out of his demolition by Lennox. There're two explanations for that:
1) Vitaly's resume is such a complete load of crap (with a grand total of 1 victory over world heavyweight champion and a long history of running from the best available opposition) that even a 6-th round loss needs to be played up and
2) Vitaly knows that his fans will happily accept whatever garbage he's spewing.
Take a look at yesterday's edition of one of the Russian newspapers
http://www.mk.ru/sport/article/2010...-klichko-quotmkquot-volodya-ne-huzhe-ali.html

For those, fortunate enough not to understand Russian, Vitaly says that his sister Wladimira is comparable to Muhammed Ali (see the automated google translation below, since I'm too lazy to translate it myself).

http://translate.google.com/transla...ya-ne-huzhe-ali.html&sl=ru&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

A few days ago the Ukranian coward put forth a suggestion that Briggs is a very dangerous opponent because.....Shannon KDed Lennox when they fought each other. That's what the guy said. I'm serious. Vitaly knows that his brainless fans will take such ridiculous statements at face value, just like they did with his stories of 5 injuries in a row against Rahman, 2 injuries against McCline, 3 injuries against Maskaev, 7 injuries against Byrd, his "accidental" use of anabolic steroids, etc, etc, etc....
To make a long story short: Vitaly is a scumbag, an utter and detestable fraud, with not an ounce of honesty, integrity or notable achievements.

 

Dwyer would like a word with you............<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Uli1pMiiPek?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Uli1pMiiPek?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

 

If you wanna backtrack and say something different, that's up to you. But this is NOT what you said originally. What you said was...

"George Foreman had fought some decent oppostion prior to meeting Muhammad Ali in Zaire but nowhere near as good as Ali himself and he comprehensively didn't get the job done,"

Which is crap because Frazier and Norton were considerably more than "decent opposition". I know they are not white boys from Europe, but they were still quality fighters. And "nowhere as good as Ali" is also crap. Ali was the Greatest, but both fighters beat him prior to the Foreman fight and gave him all he wanted in subsequent fights. Both Norton and Frazier proved they could compete evenly with Ali in the 70's.

So, if you wanna backtrack and call names, that just shows how full of shit you are.

As you were...

 

I think this has all become a bit much for you....:dunno::dunno:....maybe your local NAACP Chapter could start up a clinic for people like you??ld:

 

Isn't that the truth. Like comparing planets. You have to wonder who Foreman could have used as a sparring partner to prepare for Ali. I'm pretty sure Holmes was already employed by Dundee but I could be wrong. Foreman looked like a deer in the headlights from the opening bell. The style difference from where Foreman stood would have been almost palatable.

When you said:

I took that to mean the same thing as I said more or less given Norton and Frazier would have in no way prepared Foreman for Ali.

Btw I think Young beat Ali to. Him and Langford are probably the two best fighters to never win a keep sake.

 

There was nobody Foreman could have fought to prepare for Ali. And, when you take it to the next level.....Le Douche, Lyle, Dino Dennis and Frazier were terrible preparation for a 12 rounder with Young....which Foreman subsequently lost.

The notion of Mike Moorer embarassing Foreman in Foremans youth is not far-fetched.

 

It may be sacrilege in some circles but I never liked Foreman as a fighter. Each to their own. I became a fan of the sport in the late sixties and early seventies when boxing was a part of the weekend normal tv schedule and never took to Foreman. Always thought of him as a lumbering oaf with a punch.

 

:: Yes it is.

 

I don't even think his problems were physical. He had slow feet but at 6'4" he was able to cut the ring off quite well. He also had a telephone-pole jab and was very strong. In his youth most of his problems were mental. The fact that he won the title in the mid 90's proves that small mental adjustments can more than counterbalance physical decline. The mental adjustments he made came as the result of mature reflection upon the defeats and setbacks he suffered as a younger man.

His modus operandi as a young man was to swing. If that didn't work, swing some more. In that fight with Moorer, he never even tried to swing. Young Foreman would have swung and maybe got lucky but if he didn't that was it. Older Foreman huffed and puffed and got nothing done outside of his jab but he was constantly trying to whack Moorer to the guts and maneuver him him into the big right.


Either that or the division was shit from '87 to '95. :dunno:

 

Fixed that.

 

Uh, oh. The first sign of Irish surrender...making even more ridiculous comments when you know you are wrong.

And, BTW, genius, I'm not Black. So your "joke" (term used very loosely) makes even less sense than you hoped it might.

Thanks for playing.

 

Word. Irish is definitely reaching here.

 

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"and I'm better now than that 22 year old undeveloped kid you saw running from Sonny Liston, I'm experienced now, professional, jaws been broke been lost {sic} knocked down a couple time I been choppin' trees I done something new for this fight"


I might be reaching....but I got the reach advantage of all of you.....:nono:

 

Not sure where this thread has went but what kind of question is that? How many fights have you seen stopped on cuts? Hundreds? It's a tko. You could actually ask the same question for hundreds of fights. Lewis stopped him on a cut that could have provided space for a box store. What difference does it make whether or not Vitali provided said building permit?

 

Reaching, talking in circles, what's next??

 

If you chose to ignore the simple reality that men get better with the passing of time, up to a point, then I am sorry for you. :dunno:

Ali sat there and argued that the passage of time, and all that it involved, had made him a better man. He may not have believed it himself, certainly very few in the audience did, but the passage of time, the broken jaw, the flooring, the losses, and the fact that Foreman had experienced none of these things, allowed him to beat George Foreman.

Ali himself alludes to an "undeveloped kid that ran"....before arguing that he is no longer that undeveloped kid. He didn't expand on the notion of "development" but it would hardly be taking liberties to argue that he felt he had progressed both physically and mentally.

No real fight fan would argue absolutely that Vitali would not have had an improved chance the second time around.

 

yes it is. Moorer had no chin. Bert cooper almost had him outta there. Young george would have cleaned his clock in the 1st round.

 

Sorry, but all the double talk doesn't make the idea of Moorer beating the 1974 Foreman any less ridiculous. I don't dispute the notion that some fighters get better as their careers progress, but that isn't what I was disputing in your latest diatribe.

 

Bert Cooper also nearly had Holyfield out of there, the same Holyfield that Ring Magazine said had the the best chin 2nd only to Wayne McCullough.

Young George may well have cleaned his clock, but if he failed to do so in the first round or pretty soon well after, Moorer, like Young, may well have lead him a merry dance.