If the Ruiz fight never happened...

I don't think you can really bring titles into the argument. Especially in a now Vs then scenario.

Titles have become so watered down and there's also twice as many weight divisions, so it's not a fair comparison.

I don't even care about titles, when I look at a fighter's resumé I'm looking at the quality of opposition and decisiveness of wins, weight classes transcended etc. Titles don't mean much.

There are times in the modern era when proper scrubs hold titles, and conversely, when the recognised champion of the division doesn't even hold a title, like Barrera.

Definitely not a good way of judging a fighter's resumé.

 

The only fighter I ever commented on I havent seen was Greb, to say his achievements warranted #1 status at MW. Tell it like it is, REED.

That aside, I find your accusation that I try to be cool downright comical. Am I to take such an accusation from someone who speaks in the 3rd person in earnest? Who does that outside of a Junior High playground!? LOL. Your knowledge of fighters from the past is on full display, and the sheer depth of ignorance is stupifying. Id bet my last dollar you wouldnt identify Lewis from Burley, and I have just a little hunch reading this line gives you pause for thought.

We are all here to debate and share, but if you insist on making your posts as illegible as my 6-year-old nephew (why, BTW!?) you could at least infuse them with a modicum of insight.

 

When youre trying to argue Jones achieved more than Charles, youve got to get desperate.

 

It's not difficult to grasp it's just a totally wrong criteria.

 

Loooooong Before You Posted Here, REED PROVED his Knowledge of Fighters OLD & NEW...Famous & Non Descript....Sam Langford, Harry Wills, Charley Burley, U Name it...U're Barking Up the WRONG Tree w/the whole "Ignorance" Bit...Dig Up Some Old Threads for Your Edification...

When Posters TEASE YOU for your Propensity to CLING to Old School Fighters, they're Laughing AT YOU, Dude...Not With You...There's Mythical Matchup Threads Making Fun of YOUR Comical Stance on All Things Black & White...U're as Predictable as a "POOP" or "SAUSAGE" Post from Brother LOK...



REED

 

Hmmmm...

Correct REED if he's Wrong, but Duran Winning the Lightweight Title was an Accomplishment...Duran Winning the Welter Title was Another Accomplisment...154 was Another & 160 Yet Another...

Is Roberto Duran NOT "More Accomplished" than Muhammad Ali???...




REED

 

He certainly fought in more divisions :dunno:

An example - if Floyd and Pac fight in December and they both decide to waive the sanctioning fees and no title is on the line will the win be any less of an accomplishment on their resume?

Not in my book (even by 0.0001%).

I guess you're equating accomplishment with trophies, belts medals, letters after a persons name etc. Official recognition. Which is a different interpretation of the word, I suppose (and a legit thing to measure somehow too, though I think much less important, personally).

 

While I'm not interesting in getting involved in this debate, it has been my experience that posters only discount titles when it suit their arguement. Browse the forum and you'll see people arguing such and such is only a titleist or that one champ is better than the other because he was the lineal champ. Even that one guy was better because he was undisputed.

Like I said, we all twist and turn to suit our own arguments. I don't think there is anyone in this thread that hasn't had a completely different take on this in the past when it suited.

 

I think I've pretty consistently said Titles don't matter to me. They're, at best, the finger pointing at the moon. They're just a sign post - a tool to help us contextualize actual boxing, which happens in boxing rings between boxers.

In the case of Charles being denied title shots when he was the consecutively the best middleweight and light heavyweight in the world - it isn't even the finger pointing at the moon, it's the fat digit of a greasy mafioso pointing at a dancing girl while the magic trick takes place.

Meaningless. Charles beat every 'champion' of that period decisively and repeatedly. He got his work done in boxing rings against boxers and in the end there's no other way to do it, belts just either shine a light on it or they distract from it.

 

That was the third paragraph of yours in this thread I actually laughed out loud at Mister REED. Well played!

MTF ::

 

It Took AWHILE for Us to Get There, but this was ALL REED was Trying to Say, Really::...Sure, Joe Blow Can Win a WBZ Title Against an 0-5 Opponent, but Roy Jones' Title Wins were LEGIT...




REED:cheer:

 

Was it a trinket hunt or a sincere attempt at history against Ruiz, REED? You seem unable to make up your mind.

 

His titles were as legit as titles these days can be, but I agree with others here in that titles are not the correct way to compare fighters since one fighter here (Charles) was denied the official recognition even though he would have deserved it.

Roy defended his unified (three belts) lt. heavy title seven times, while Dariusz defended his lineal title 14 times. I'd say the titles were as legit, since Hill was generally recognized as the champ, whereas Jones defeated three solid guys to gather those three titles. So can we say that Dariusz had the better reign since he defended his title twice as much? Of course not, because Jones beat the much better fighters. Same here, Charles beat astonishingly good opposition, never mind titles

 

Yet REED wants to penalise Charles for not winning a title in the non-existent SMW division, or for not winning the LHW belt, "for whatever reason." LOL. Is that because you didnt know the reason prior to this thread, REED?

 

Put it This Way...

The ONLY Reason REED Rates Roberto Duran OVER Muhammad Ali All-Time is Because he Fought AND WON TITLES IN MORE WEIGHT CLASSES than Ali Did...He ACCOMPLISHED More...



REED:scared:

 

REED is VERY Familiar w/Ezzard Charles, Dude:wack:...Again, U're Faaaaaaaaaaaaar from the Only Fightbeater w/a Grasp on Boxing History so Please GET OVER Yourself...REED Typed "For Whatever Reason" as a BOTTOM LINE Statement Reflecting that Charles NEVER Won Titles in the Weight Classes REED Spoke of...

Should we REWARD a Guy w/a RETROACTIVE Title Belt, Despite NEVER Actually Fighting for the Title in that Division???...



REED:hammert:

 

No, YOU Seem UNABLE to Process what REED Said to You...It was a SINCERE Attempt @ History Because Ruiz was SINCERELY & LEGITIMATELY A Heavyweight Champion...The First Latino Heavyweight Champion EVER was??......JOHNfuckingRUIZ...

Ruiz is an OFFICIAL Historical Footnote & NO Amount of Ramonza Roy Jones Hate can Alter That...



REED:cheer:

 

I think so yes, if this guy has beaten all the best fighters of that division, among them the champion.

Think of Sonny Liston: his heavyweight title reign (accomplishments) was among the poorest of the division history, yet he is ranked to #10 by many. That is because he cleaned out the division before he got the title shot and proved that he was the best fighter of the weight class