Would your pick be different in a matchup- If you KNEW the result was gonna be a K.O- For example-Who would be the victor in these bouts, if somehow the result was a guaranteed K.O; Tito-DLH Ali-Holmes Ali-Tyson Ali-Lewis Hopkins-Pavlik Lewis-Holyfield PBF-DLH Others?
Tito-DLH (if by KO i would pick DLH) Ali-Holmes (Ali) Ali-Tyson (Ali) Ali-Lewis (Ali) Hopkins-Pavlik (Hopkins) Lewis-Holyfield (Holyfield) PBF-DLH (DLH)
no way tyson KOs Ali. Especially knowing what you all know now about Tyson? I am surpised. Ali doesnt have the mental capacity to deal with Ali. And he would mentally quit by round 6 and be Koed by Round 10
I want to know where this Ali Myth gets propagated from. Cooper, Jones, Frazier, Norton, etc. EVERY pressure fighter Ali fought gave him problems. Ali has almost no power, and he's gonna KO MIKE TYSON? I assume we're not talking about the Tyson of 2000 when we're thinking about this matchup. Tyson brutalized boxers/guys fighting off the back foot. He would KO Ali, and if u knew the result was a KO it'd be 99.99999% for sure that Ali was the losing fighter
I'm one Tyson's biggest fans, but he wouldnt beat the 67 Ali. Though he would give Ali trouble for the first half of the fight.
The problem is Tyson is not a pressure fighter in the mold of Frazier... And he TENDS to get frustrated if things doesn't go his way. No doubt Ali had the abilities to frustrate Tyson and kick him off his gameplan. And The prime Tyson never fought a guy remotely close to what Ali can produce of his backfoot. I'm not saying tyson has no chance but this is not as written in stone as u make it out to be.
How could a guy who couldn't keep Jurgin Blin and Karl MeldenBerger off him deal with Tyson's pressure. I mean name one pressure fighter who didn't fight his fight against Ali.
The times when Tyson looked frustrated, he was facing guys who were literally fighting to not get KO'd. Its tough to KO stink, and assuming Ali tried to trade with Tyson, the way he tried to trade with anyone who made it a firefight, he'd be in trouble.
Tyson's pressure was alot more like Norton, in that he jabbed his way in (something Ali hated) and used his defense and speed to set up his offense.
What about the Foreman fight he wasn't stupid enough to trade until Foreman was tired/Frustrated... I'M 100% sure he wouldn't go and start an all-out war with Tyson from the get go he would use a lot of "Stink" early on trying to potshot while dancing circles around Tyson. The problem here is Ali's chin he could take a handful of Tyson's best punches. And i say it again - i'm not saying Tyson wouldn't win the way you discribed it but it won't be as easy as you said, because Tyson never faced let alone beat a guy with Ali's abilities.
Oh I agree about Ali's chin, and his great gameplan for the Foreman fight. But the 70's foreman was a lumbering oaf with great strength and nearly zero defense, he is completely disanalogous to Tyson when I think of this match-up. The Norton/Frazier fights to me are much more poignant to the discussion, not because of the outcome, but because of the way both pushed the action without being a wide open target. I mean Tyson may have the best come forward defense of anyone ever, certainly the best HW one ever, and he would turn your missed punches into bad things for his opponents. I just can't see him getting "psyched out" the way most people claim.
I agree Tyson is much more accurately in offense and with his pressure. I just used the argument to say that Ali won't necessarily trade with Tyson - he's not that dumb. In the 15 rounds with Frazier Ali dished out a lot of punishment and i think Frazier was as tough as they come. Could Tyson take the same without getting frustrated. Of course his chin is equally good if not even better. I'm just questioning his will when things don't go his way and he doesn't get the KO against Ali. What if he decisions Ali with his constant pressure and Ali can avoid the KO... that's why i picked Ali here because i think if a KO occurs here it's more likely Tyson had one of his mental fuckups than Ali being KOed in his prime. I just don't see anybody doing this - sorry. The more i think about it i find it more likely that Tyson decisions him than Koing him... call me crazy but that's how i see it. ::
Frazier is a 190lber with a very average/poor chin. Mike Tyson is a 220lber with a very good chin, much better defense, much better speed/power, ability to use both hands, etc... Ali, for as great a chin as he had, was dropped and hurt many times against pressure guys with a good hook. IMO Tyson is simply a better version of Frazier in almost every way (maybe not stamina) and provides much better skills than anyone Ali was troubled by.
I don't agree with the avrg/poor chin just because he was butchered twice by Foreman. His chin against Ali looked solid. I totally respect your stance here and the way you compare Tyson with Frazier i just doubt he also had the mentality of Frazier. But the other points might very well make up for that. I see i won't change your mind here but maybe u can see why i don't see it as 99.999%ish as you do. But thx for the argument anyways always a rare thing here not to be called retarded in every post just because u differ on a few points... ::
