Im not big on the 30's and 40's era fighters, but

Great post. I agree with this.

However, I have always said the Marciano beats anyone in history under 200 pounds.

 

its tough to argue against it, thats for sure... guy was a beast

 

I can only say I disagree completely.

 

A fast man, "by the standards of the day?"

Are fighters quicker on their feet now than yesteryear? Has there been some evolutionary leap forward in reflexes & speed? Must be those Power Balance Braceletes doing their thing...

Also, it's time the myths surrounding Louis-Conn I were put to bed. For one thing, the fight was very close. Conn was ahead, by a small enough margin for Louis to still win on points if he swept the last three rounds. That's a far cry from the, "beating" you so often hear about. For another, where is this huge shift in Conn's gameplan we are fed by would-be historians? It isn't there, watching the film --- Conn fights the thirteenth in similar (not identical, but similar) fashion to his previous stanzas --- taking the fight to Louis with rapid-fire combinations, the stiff left, & fighting as much as dancing.

 

Roy Jones is smaller than Billy Conn, for what it's worth --- I notice you said, "especially if a guy like Conn could," does that infer you think Jones was a better fighter than Conn?

 

Yup.

 

I'm not sure I agree --- though I'm not really sure I disagree, either. Conn was a fundamentally-sound fighter, & Jones was more unorthodox as a result of his wonderful athleticism...it makes for an interesting comparison. Conn was obviously not the same puncher pound-for-pound (though he did score a terrific KO against the hardened Bob Pastor, from a bodyblow no less) but, then, he was a bigger man than Jones was in natural terms.

Jones doesn't have much to go on this high in weight. One fight (at a time when his prime had either ended, or was in its twilight) whilst juicing, & against a very ordinary fighter, who Jones did make look poor, of course. Jones has some assets which match up in his favour against Louis, but I just feel less-than-convinced overall. Much bigger men who were very good boxers, like Tommy Farr & Pastor, ticked all the boxes stylistically but couldn't get the job done. Partly, these men lived in fear of Louis' raw punching power. How would that effect Jones?

If I were managing him, I would have Jones take many fights at Heavyweight before I paired him with Louis. He needs to know what it is to be hit in there by a fighter from the sport's Heaviest division who can knock out men infinitely bigger (& harder) than Jones was.

 

The standard of the day was that heavyweights alternated between 5'9" and 6'2" or so, with weights ranging from 170-200+, as a general guide.

As a basic rule, coordination, speed, and fluidity would be respectively different in smaller men than in larger men.

Consider that when Clay/Ali appeared on the scene, the standard of the day in terms of speed and coordination took a massive leap.

All of a sudden, goal posts had been moved.

 

By, "standard" I see you mean the highest-possible echelon.

For me, the question is, "Were guys in Walcott's era slower of hand & foot than today?" & for that, I see no evidence. Maybe Hi-Def television is fooling some, but...

 

Just wait for 3D.

:bears:

 

::

 

According to boxrec Conn weighed 174 lbs for his bout against Louis while Jones weighed 193 lbs in his heavyweight outing. Might be the Hi-Def television that has put the scales off though

 

Conn would never have made 154lbs. He's also from an era when training down in weight was the accepted norm, as opposed to Jones, who is from an age of division-hopping & trinket belts (like the one he took so easily from Ruiz).

 

evander holyfield would have given marciano a serious hiding if they fought at 200lbs

 

:laughing::laughing:

Roy had a smaller frame than Conn but he was certainly "bigger" in many regards, viz weight, muscle mass.

 

Yeah that's why we said UNDER.

 

This post exemplifies part of the problem I have in reaching/getting through to you.

We pick a certain, specific aspect of two fighters, from different era's, with a view to reaching a determination as to their success against a common opponent..................and you go off on a Hegman-esque tangent about weight-making and trinkets and the decline in standards.

:boring::boring::boring:

 

You have completely misconstrued my post.

 

Yeah, just a little bit, not entirely though.

Once again, the trinketry of the modern era, the paucity of action-packed fights, the sheer dearth of brain-damaged hero's should not detract from the reality that there are some awfully handy guys knocking around, albeit in greatly reduced numbers.

I think Jones engaged in a lot of verbals, and took full advantage of the weight-making aids of modern sports, so to speak, but none of that would have mattered a whit once the time to get it on had come.