is calzaghe one of the best fighters ever

Yes, a ton.

Not quite the same, I know... but the New England Patriots went from 18-0 and one win away from being the greatest team ever, to losing the Super Bowl and being just another team.

In line with a point Tam raised earlier in this thread - it's not like Joe's resume is a who's who of the best over the past 15 years. In fact, prior to 2006, he was one of the chief contributors to everything that was historically wrong with the super middleweight division.

It's the past three years that's rapidly advanced his ranking, and we're really only talking about three notable wins (with the Hopkins fight being nothing to write home about, save for getting the W).

 

For a guy to have been in the gym with both guys he's in his mid 70's at least. SENILE.

 

dsimon writes:

Well we can agree to disagree. My dad and his brother, both diehard Louis fans told me that Louis was not in shape for the fight, had already tapered off dramatically, and was a shell of himself with a lot of monetary problems. They said basically he needed the money and knew he was going to take a beating.

 

Don't forget...Louis took two years off, came back and fought Marciano roughly a year after returning to the ring.

It was about the money.

 

dsimon writes:

My uncle is :: but not my dad! not by a long shot and when they told me about Louis they both had a full deck. I mean look at Louis in that fight he doesn't look like he did in his best days imo imo!

 

Yeah. I mean, we should rely on the 20 somethings of this forum for our history. Good idea.

 

dsimon writes:

and can yu imagine fighting to give your purse to the IRS? People don't realize that there was one criminal organization bigger than Capone in those days (they brought Capone down) and who you did not want to owe and that was the IRS!

 

Yeah, I mean boxing is an easy sport. I've never heard of a guy who's had to fight just to keep dinner on the table for his family, to keep them in clothing and to provide shelter. Boxing is only about living large.

Give me a fucking break. Louis was going through tough times and you know what? Thats what boxing is for 99% of pro's. Those tough times motivated him (words from HIS mouth) and they lead him to run off an impressive streak of victories over contenders....which Marciano was just another one of. Louis was the overwhelming favourite for a reason. Marciano is the one who had everything to prove, not Joe Louis.

You can go along with your family's words if you want (even though they're self admitted Louis die-hards)...me? I'll trust the guy who has been around boxing for over 50 years, is HOF affiliated, has been involved with a bunch of the greatest fighters in our history and still lives very comfortably from it.

Perception.

 

I was 79 the night Louis and Marciano fought. I have a good grasp on what the climate was like at the time.

::

 

dsimon writes:

Ridiculous post on so many points. Look you want to say Louis was on his A game for that fight go right ahead! Frankly it needs no justification it is an opinion, nobody knows except Louis and he ain't telling! But this other Bullshit? Please man!!

Fighters have always been manipulated like crazy and treated like cash cows by so many sycophants. The criminals around when Louis was fighting are legendary... some trainers had to leave boxing because of them. And the IRS? You don't know about the IRS so please... down in Louisiana where my wife is from almost half the people lost land to the government during the last really hard times... the irs has a history of going after people with no sense of judgement and no sense of persepctive. Louis was given no quarter, he made some bad decisions financially so they ruined his life and made him work as a FuCKING Greeter in Vegas. His friend Max Schmeling had to bail him out!

I hope that some of these posts are just because... and don't reflect on you... I think you are alot smarter than that, I certainly hope nothing has changed and that your IQ hasn't taken a hit.

 

Poor Joe. :dunno:

 

dsimon writes:

:: Touche'

 

And we should rely on the belief of a posters belief from some guy who we don't even know exists or how credible he is? I'm supposed to just totally discount the Joe Louis autobiography as well as every other documentary or story that has been reported about this fight just because some guy you spoke to claims it's not the truth? Ridiculous. The guy could be biased, racist, or just flat out nuts. Also the fact that you say it isn't the view sounds like he must have a different opinion about it.

History itself pretty much proves that Louis was not in his prime when he fought Marciano. To try to state otherwise and so blantantly believe some guy at the gym is just retarded.

 

I'd trust the barber in coming to america over anything anyone related to that longwinded ignoramus douchesimon says.

 

dsimon writes:

:bears: Crickey is truly on a role! ::

 

dsimon writes:

BUt I love you so much my sweet, especially when you wear the yamacule with the poca dots! :dunno:

 

WTF is wrong with you? Did I say Louis was prime? If I did, please do point that part out for me. What I stated was that unlike Calzaghe v Jones, the older fighter was the FAVOURITE by the same margin that the younger man is in this fight.

Until you learn to read, please...go back to slurping Mosley and leave boxing history to the rest of us.

 

Don't back out now motherfucker. When Dsimon said that Louis was not in his prime when he fought Marciano, you specifically said you've been in the gym with a guy who's been in the gym with both guys and that that isn't the view at all. So I can read, I can even comprehend, and why would I want to talk boxing history with a guy who believes anything somebody tells them? You come off like you got a degree in the shit or something.

 

:: What the hell are you talking about? ::What *I* said was (seeing as you're having trouble finding trouble with that) was that the view that Louis was washed up and finished and only fought on for money, wasn't the case at all. I said nothing about him being prime, just that HE WAS THE FAVOURITE FOR THEIR FIGHT. Thats not an opinion, thats a fucking fact. Numbers don't lie. People do. Guys who have absolutely nothing to prove to anyone, don't need their stories questioned by the likes of us, either.

So again, what are you harping on about?

 

I'm not harping on about nothing, if you want to drop your argument and pretend or dispute that you didn't say it fine, I'm not going to argue with myself. But in the post you made you clearly stated that Marciano was just another in a long line of contenders that Louis was running through which to me sounds like you're saying there was no dropoff from the time he fought those other contenders to when he fought Louis which is another way of saying he was in his prime. Now is that not what you were saying, because that sure is heck how it came out?

 

That is the THIRD DIFFERENT THING you've claimed that I said. Make your fucking mind up.

You're doing a hell of alot of assuming. Marciano WAS just another one of the contenders that Marciano was fighting. Was Rocky better? He was, but at the time, he wasn't viewed as the guy to beat Louis. Again, thats not opinion, thats fact. Thats what betting lins reflect; public opinion worth their salt.

 

this thread is shot

 

Great Thread!!

I love when threads get down to people telling others "Until you learn to read" :bears:

 

dsimon writes:

yeah baby!!!! this thread is red hot Crickey is into it with lb4lb.. Neil has called me the equivalent of a schmuck.... Lets all get into it!!!!!!!!


Roundhouse to the head Buyahhh!!!


Here I will throw one: LOK my brother you are a bald penis head like Agassi and Pavlik!! :: and Hanzy is fat lets keep the magic going! next? ::

 

Calzaghe is the greatest fighter of all time. Anywhere, anytime, he's P4P #1 in history!

 

Enzo Calzaghe has hacked Caligula's account. Mods, you need to investigate this.

 

I think Calzaghe is one of the best fighters ever. Behind prime Roy and Chavez, ahead of guys like Toney, Hopkins, Whitaker.

 

Chavez is one of the most overrated fighters ever.

Who did he beat that was as good as Nard? Thumping 200 taxi drivers does not a top 10 all time pound for pounder make.

 

Chavez > Duran

 

Not even close. Duran would have wiped his arse with Chavez.

Could Chavez have beaten a prime Leonard? He wouldn't have even come close.

Duran > Chavez by a pretty fucking big margin.