Is it time to call Pacquiao the GOAT?

Manny has fought ONE fighter in his prime, yet he has proved to so many that he's top 10 p4p EVER!!:shit:

Shit, Joe Calzaghe has a case to be ranked higher!!

 

Well I don't think he was. Dude had a carefully guided career after his loss to Morales. The only person he beat was the clown prince.

Cupey

 

Well I wouldn't go that far, but at least you see my point.

Cupey

 

Why not??

Lacy = Cotto, except Lacy was UNDEFEATED.

ROY = DLH

Hopkins= Barrera

Kessler = Marquez

Shieka = Morales

Looks pretty comparable to me. Except Joe didn't lose.::

 

If that is what "=" means to you, I'm guessing you aren't very good at math.

 

::::::

 

im not sure how but somehow this enhances RJJs legacy

 

Ok lets be Mr. Serious guy.

That was obviously a joke. That's why there's one of these!::::::::::::::::

 

So you think the others are legit? Hmm....

 

OK let's be serious, you're obviously very bitter towards Pacman for thrashing so many Mexicans.

But be real, he is the best fighter in the world, end of story :kidcool:

You picked Cotto to KO him in 4 rounds, you're clearly not very wise to the beast that is Manny Pacquiao.

 

Uh, I'm american, sorry.:nono:

Not bitter at all. Manny's great, just his fans seem to be, well like dumb little groupies.

He's not the best fighter in the world, Floyd is and he's going to prove it. Don't agree? How much you willing to wager?

 

Anyone else enjoy the irony of fundametalist, Christian nutters, just not getting along together?

 

That "::" works if you are serious, too.

That said, I am shamed.

 

all this thread has highlighted is that there are many ways for you guys to be wrong. It is ok, I've spent the past 5 years preaching about Pacquiao, and unlike the troll Alabama Man, I have no reason to be subjective about it.

Manny will go down as the GOAT to anyone with a brain 20 years from now. I'll wait for you old-timer lovers to smell the roses.

 

It would be a very good win for Mayweather. Just like how Tito is arguably best win for Hopkins, and Tito was smaller, and had just destroyed the consensus number 2/3 MW in the world, as Pacquiao has done at WW. Only, Cotto is much better than Joppy, and Pacquiao is a considerably greater fighter than Tito.

 

::

 

When Floyd thrashes him he will be ranked in better perspective.

 

Similar to Kirkland Laing Thrashing Roberto Duran, or Joe Frazier thrashing Muhammad Ali?

Or perhaps similar to Thomas Hearns thrashing Ray Leonard in the rematch?

Or perhaps similar to Ray Robinson being thrashed by Randy Turpin?

 

If Floyd does, both he and Pacquiao will still be the top two fighters of this era and ATGs, IMO.

 

Ok, serious question jaws. Where do you rank these fighters all-time?

Barrera
Morales
Cotto
DLH
Hatton

Do any of these fighters belong on anyones top ten all time greatest list?

 

::

Are you Cupey's alias?

 

From now on please stop using GOAT. GOHE is the new term. "Greatest of his Era". GOAT is an unrealistic term which is sentimental at best (Ali, SRR, SRL, Duran, etc....)

GOHE is a more measurable and realistic term. The winner of PAC and FLoyd gets the nod.

 

Why don't you want to answer a simple question? :kidcool:

 

Damn good post sir.:bears:

 

not the greatest all time right now but he is getting there.

The funny thing is if you ask anybody right now who is the Greatest of all time you will get different answers. Even when you throw Ali, Ray Robinson, etc... you always get different names.

 

Because its on par with a student of mine who told me 10 1/4 and 10 were the same.

 

Oh, I see. You know what's going to happen if you answer.::

 

Name one person who thinks any of those guys is top ten ever?(what you asked me)

 

You cannot engage in legitimate, open discussion if you refuse to answer questions wherein the answer you must honestly give will negatively affect the case you argue. Also answering a question with a question is weak. Next you'll find someone with whom you can spend all day saying back and forth:
"No you shut up."
"No you shut up."

As far as actually contributing to the thread, I think Pac is flirting with GOAT status. Saying someone is the greatest of their era or of their time is nice, but it then demands the followup question of how the fighter would compare with other "greatest of their era" fighters, and then you are right back to GOAT talk anyway.

When a sport changes, it is not unreasonable to gauge participants in the context of the sport at their time. In fact, it must be done if you ever want to try and make comparisons over long periods of time. Elite fighters today do not fight every 2 weeks, and probably couldn't even if they wanted to because the business and sport of boxing has changed and does not practically permit this anymore. There are other aspects of boxing as a whole that have changed as well.

So if you just keep it simple and look at Pac's opponents, his victories, his ascent of multiple weight classes, the way in which he wins his fights, and very importantly how his accomplishments compare with other "greats" of his time, he matches up very well IMO against many of those considered all time greats. To move up in weight and fight the very best at each weight class within the weight classes where they are strongest, to do this repeatedly, and to do it with brutal stoppages is extremely impressive. When he stayed at lower weight classes for any extended period of time, he also fought and beat the best there, many of the fighters he beat being legendary themselves.

He also gets style points IMO because he doesn't run, he trades with bigger men, he has an unorthodox and bizarrely effective style which allows him to throw odd punches at odd angles with devastating power. He has a granite chin and is rarely hurt. His speed is fabulous and his power in both hands is very rare, especially as he moves up into higher weight classes. This is not a guy who outpoints great fighters and wins 115-113 decisions over the course of his career, eeking out a good looking resume. This is a guy who frequently crushes champions, legends, and fellow hall of famers.

All that said, I think Pac needs to continue fighting in order to make his case more formidable for GOAT. His career has NOT been long enough, even in this era of fighters retiring after 30 fights. To fight and definitively beat PBF and a few other elite, hall of famers at welter or closeby would make him difficult to argue against as GOAT. Something like beating PBF clearly and then perhaps Shane Mosely and maybe 1-2 young rising stars is what he really needs to seal the deal.

Without that type of continuance in his career, his detractors would point out a very short campaign in the higher weights, along with being KO'd a few times early on, and IMO a clear loss to an aging Erik Morales which was NOT early on in Pac's career. He needs to do a bit more miracle working in order to balance all that out and solidify his stature as GOAT.

I really dislike fans who cannot manage to think in terms of context. Yes, boxing used to have 15 round fights, and fighters fought more often. Early on they would just fight 100 rounds if that's what it took. But the sport has changed, and there are new parameters in place that must be considered when weighing a modern fighter against fighters of the past.

It's like - what if the NFL today changed the season length to 12 games? Does that then mean that no team from today on - EVER - for all eternity - can ever be as good as a team that went 14-2 back when there was a 16 game season? Of course not. But in order to engage in that type of argument, you have to grade accomplishment and performance of each team or athlete in the context of its time before you compare them in an attempt to gauge who is better.

 

:bears:excellent, excellent post