Is Sugar Shane Being UNDERestimated???...

I've mentioned that Margarito's had a lot of tough fights recently, and, according to some reports he ballooned up quite a bit after the win and has had to drop significant pounds for this fight.

Margarito needs to still have the same hunger in training and in the ring...because his success is predicated on it.

I do think this will be a more competitive fight than some think, especially early, but I'd expect Margarito to come on in typical fashion.

 

Well likewise Shane also took a lot of punishment from Cotto and it seemed to show in the Mayorga fight.

 

Not to good at detecting sarcasm?

 

The use of "nathan" tipped me off. ::

 

That and him saying Mosley would win easy. Mosley couldn't even beat mayorga easy.

 

Yeah, there's that too.

 

Well, from what I've been reading Mosley is being underrated. Especially in light of the fact a lot of people think Margarito is going to punish and stop him. I just don't see it happening. I think this comes from the fact Margarito destroyed Cotto badly in his last fight. First of all, Cotto is not even near as durable as Mosley is (no comparison actually), and second of all Margarito is just not a hard puncher. He just punches a lot. That's not enough to stop Mosley.

 

Who ever manages Mosley is doing a piss poor job since the Wright fight. He hasn't done crap since 2004. If he was with Arum he'd look better then what he is now ala delahoya.

 

Well, Im glad somebody did.

PS: there was more than a hint there too.

 

Valid Point...

Margarito Won IMPRESSIVELY & Eventually DOMINATED Cotto, but it WASN'T an "Easy" Fight Whatsoever....


REED:hammert:

 

dsimon writes:

Its a good and legitimate point Illum.

I want to dovetail on that to also say that Cotto with all his visciousness and precision and skill is not what I would consider a physically overbearing presence in the ring... I think Margario's pure strength and size were too much for him inthis respect. One thing is certain and that is that Shane does not mind that physicality in the ring. Shane is stronger, more durable than Cotto imo. I cant' see any fighter maybe with the exception of Margarito (wich remains to be seen) who could out physical Shane. I think in this one respect Margarito will take a lot more from Shane in the trenches when he comes to attack, it should be an intriguing match up in this respect.

It works well for Shane because he knows where to find Margarito if nothing else... its the big Mexican guy pressing you... not not the referee!

 

Hey!,... ... back off :nono:!!!,... only Hopkins has the distinction of being called 'Mr Unknockoutable' .......he's the only fighter in history who has never been knocked out, or he's severely overrated and over celebrated, one of the two, I can't remember.

 

:: what a joke. mosley has gotten several paydays verus washed up names since the wright fights. sounds like great management to me.

 

OK, my bad:doh:, my apologies TamTam. You other buttsniffs act like you have big balls because of your sarcasm dectection. sheesh.

 

i sure like aht ole sugar shane! that boy can figth!

 

Mayorga has never been stopped before? I seem to recall both Trinidad and ODH stopping Mayorga in fights they were winning handily at the time. And actually, in both cases, I think the finishes were more impressive than Mosley's. Mosley nearly fell down himself after landing his final blow, whereas ODH put Mayorga down with a perfectly exectued counter left-hook. And Trinidad's destruction of Mayorga was frightening in its accuracy and ferocity. I'd say Mosley's was the sloppiest and least impressive stoppage of Mayorga, and it too the longest to finally deliver. You make it sound like he hit Mayorga with shots much harder than anything ODH or Trinidad landed. I don't think anything could be farther from the truth.

Right or wrong, I think a lot of people have Shane's loss to Cotto in mind in their assessment of his chances against Margarito. Of course, this is a flawed way to handicap a fight given that styles makes fights, but in my mind Margaitio's style is even worse for Mosley than Cotto's was.

Mosley's going to try to clinch a lot and will pay dearly for doing so. Margarito doesn't like being clinched. Ask any of his opponents. Neither does Cotto (like to be clinched), but he doesn't have the output or size that Margarito does.

Look for Mosley to fight his usual mid-range one punch at a time and then clinch fight, and then get punished, or timed coming in to the point where he begins backing up like he did against Forrest. This becomes a fight he absolutely can't win and one that could very well end like the Cotto fight.

I agree that Mosley's hand-speed will allow him to land from mid-range, but like I said, it'll be one punch followed by a clinch which because of Margarito's strength and depending on the referee he will be punished each time for initiating.

 

Did you see their respective faces after that fight? How could you say Margarito took more punishment than Cotto? That's absurd. Margarito could be one of those guys you simply can't hurt to the head and will take head shots all day.

A couple things...

Shane's got an advantage over Cotto because he's used to fighting stronger, bigger guys. he's used to getting pushed around whereas Cotto was used to being the bigger and/or stronger fighter in most of his fights. We saw how poorly he reacted over the last four rounds against Shane when Shane applied pressure.

I'm giving Shane a better than expected shot due to what I said above and based on his coming off the Vargas and mayorga fights the past few years. yes, he didn't look great (until the end) against Mayorga and got hit with shots he shouldn't have but I believe that as awful as Margarito is, his footwork is just as bad.

Plus, Shane doesn't have any bitch in him (unlike Cotto) and he'll pick his spots to box and stand his ground with Tony.

 

stand his ground? :: you mean hold him and pray the referee breaks them up immediately so he can throw his leaping left hook again from mid-distance?

you say Shane doesn't have any bitch in him, but his style is as bitchy as they come when you're talking about elite fighters.

he doesn't trade, his primary defense is clinching, he generally throws one shot at a time and then grabs his opponent. and he attempts, and somehow gets away with a lot of holding and hitting.

about the best thing you can say about Mosley is that he'll fight just about anyone.

and it's a good point you make about his being used to fighting larger men (as opposed to Cotto). but the version of Vargas he fought, and Mayorga, big or not, pose nothing close to the threat that Margarito does. and as for Wright, for what it's worth, he lost miserably to him twice. Finally, he also lost to Forrest twice. So while he has experience fighting bigger men, he doesn't have a very good track record against them.

in fact, save for the first ODH fight, and the string of bums he knocked out following his victory over him, Mosley's reputation is largely a product of his beating the shyte out of guys half his size down at 135, where he dwarfed just about every opponent he faced.

 

Where did i say Margarito took more punishment than Cotto?? Margarito took more punishment in the Cotto fight than any other of his fights that i have watch..

Shane Mosley show some bitch in him in the FORREST REMATCH.....

 

REED NEVER Said that, Doub...REED Said Nobody had "Stretched" Mayorga as Mosley Did...Sorry, but THE Most Impressive Way to FINISH a Fight, is by Leaving your Man HORIZONTAL on the Canvas, for a PROLONGED Period of Time...Neither Tito NOR DeLa Did that...

Mosley "Nearly Fell" After Whacking Mayorga Because he was Trying to KNOCK his Head Off...He Put his ENTIRE Body N 2 that Shot & Reaped the Benefits...REED Agrees that the OVERALL Performance was SLOPPIER than Tito's or DeLa's, but the KO ITSELF was Better...

Shane's STRONG Enough to EFFECTIVELY Clinch Margarito...Depending on the Ref, REED Can Definitely See Shane CLINCHING when he Needs a Respite, Gathering Himself, BEATING Margarito to the Punch Consistently, then CLINCHING Again...

& if Shane REvisits the Body Attack, Who Knows how Margarito will React...

REED DOESN'T Expect Margarito to "Figure Out" Shane as Quickly or as THOROUGHLY as he Did Cotto...



REED:hammert:

 

Cotto's body gave out on him late in that fight.

He simply couldn't keep up that pace and movement for twelve rounds.

Mosley can't, and won't, move that much.

That could help Mosley early on, because he has the faster, sharper punches...but eventually, Margarito should build up a head of steam and it doesn't matter if you can beat him to the punch, because Margarito's first punch is followed by seconds and thirds and he gets closer, and that puts in in better range for his uppercut.

I think Mosley will be a tougher fight, physically, for Margarito than Cotto was.

 

Oscar fought like a bitch in far more fights than you can ever accuse Mosley of...

MAGO
Quartey
Trinidad
Hopkins
Pacquiao

The point of what I'm saying is that despite Cotto landing clean shots, he didn't get Tony's respect. You can't play keep away the whole night when the guy can take your best shit and keep walking you down...Freitas proved that against Corrales and Cotto co-signed several years later.

 

As someone who was AT that fight, I recall scoring it a relatively close fight.

 

there's no doubt Mosley will be a tougher fight for Margarito than Cotto was in my opinion. Cotto didn't clinch at all and although he set down on his punches, it was always on the top of his mind to get moving again. this made his ability execute a sustained attack, the kind needed to discourage and/or hurt Margarito impossible.

as people have said, Mosley won't opt to take such a disciplined approach. instead, i expect a much sloppier, perhaps even tedious fight at times, due to the amount of clinching the Mosley will do.

if Mosley can be first consistently and then tie up Margarito after every assault, he could win a decision. in that sense, the outcome of the fight will depend very much on how the referee deals with the clinches, and Margarito for that matter as well.

if Mosley finds that clinches are allowed to persist, and Margarito is able to hurt Mosley in the clinch, then I don't see Mosley winning. I see him having to resort to moving away, and putting forth very little offense, and if not getting stopped, then losing a lop-sided decision.

 

MAGO
Quartey - this is the most ridiculous example of them all
Trinidad
Hopkins - let's see how Mosely does against a guy as big as Hopkins
Pacquiao - BESIDES quiting he didn't fight like a bitch. Pacquiao was just too quick for him.

But your point is well taken. ODH has shown some bitch in him. But that has nothing to do with Mosley and the fact that he refuses to fight inside and holds about 20 times a round. Not to mention, has relied on steroids for God knows how long

 

Name a fight where your Golden Shower hero fought inside.

Name a fight where your Golden Shower hero fought off the ropes...wait...the Pacquiao fight...we saw how well that turned out.

And yes the Quartey fight is a prime example of Oscar fighting like a bitch...especially after he got thumped in the 6th round. I've always summed up that fight by saying Oscar was afraid of Quartey's jab and Quartey was content with standing on the outside smiling at Oscar.

 

:atu:

 

I definitely give Msley a big chance, but I don't think he'll win. To paraphrase an old LOK line (after DLH-Mosley II) Shane doesn't do enough. He bounces, jumps in, grapples when he has to, and has quick single shots, but I don't think that'll cut it against Margarito to win a decision. It WILL, IMO be enough to last the distance.

 

Although Shane always tries he doesn't do enough as has already been mentioned. He seems content with losing now as long as puts forward a decent effort. That mentality doesn't help with a guy who doesn't seem to know how to quit like Margarito.

It seems to beat Antonio you have to be able to outbox him or keep up with him. Mosley can't do either at this stage of his career.

I do think he'll last the distance but a corner stoppage wouldn't surprise me.

 

It's too bad Margarito wasn't around in Shane's prime. I would have enjoyed hearing Margarito bitch how much nobody will fight him while constently trying to get a big payday by the also prime DLH. Then Mosley would sign on to fight Margarito and wipe up the canvas with him.