Is there any way Klitshkos could become ATGs?

It's a sham. Ali should have been in intensive care the night they wheeled him out to face Berbick. In Nassau. With the cow-bell. Those were the days, though, eh??? :dunno:

 

that's a function of heart, recuperative powers

it has ZERO to do with CHIN

Briggs was dropped and hurt REPEATEDLY by Lennox Lewis... he did nothing but take shots from Vitali all night and was never off of his feet... MORE THAN A DECADE LATER... you attribute that to HGH? ridiculous

He was 268 for Jameel McCline YEARS EARLIER and got dropped... McCline is no puncher himself

just stop with this nonsense

 

that makes him about as useful as Briggs

 

You saying Lennox didn't KO him is a logical fallacy as an argument. Lennox didn't KO him because the fight got stopped early.

GH isn't going to be the difference between getting blasted onto the canvas repeatedly by fighter X and getting pecked at for 12 rounds by fighter Y. Especially when you consider that Vitali hasn't knocked anyone unconscious in over a decade, and of course that Briggs was a much better fighter 15 years ago.

Agree that Wlad could've knocked out the Briggs that fought Vitali, though whether he would've is debatable.

Vitali can't punch for shit. All arguments aside, your eyes can tell you this.

 

Honestly, a 190lb Qawi would be Vitali's best win.

 

Stupids like you will rate Nielsen higher because he fought more recognized greats than the Klitschko's. Right? Better resume and all.

The Klitschko's, otoh, fought the best fighters available who would fight them and have kicked their asses.

 

Dont forget, Briggs was garbage at his peak and mummified when Klitschko beat him, but like the old black-and-white fighters, damn, he was TOUGH ::

 

The pity of it is that if we had a 190lb Qawi, he'd get beaten up and people would be moaning about the size difference. I think the KLitschkos have largely served their purpose at this stage, reducing the Atlas and Farhoods and Kims of this world to babbling frothing wrecks. Every day is a mini-Nurmeberg for these people, they have to sit up in their studios and explain the unexplainable to a increasingly revolted audience.

Juxtaposed against the above is the inability of any of the other supposedly "Stacked" divisions to get their act together, the general lawlessness of 147, the manner in which people like pac and floyd have conducted themselves, the loaded gloves, the EPO, etc.

It makes the aforementioned yobs look like just that- yobs. Any sensible person would pause to ask themselves if the Klitschkos were really boxings biggest problem, if indeed they were a problem at all. Yet the babbling-heads persist with their cacophonous babble. We got Steve Farhood investigating the Heavyweight Division again this week in Boxing Monthly. How? Both Klitschkos just did like 90,000 at their last two gates combined. Its like Boxing is bleeding from a head-wound and these clowns are inspecting its finger-nails and saying it doesn't pass muster.

Boxing gets what it deserves. The smallest fight you can make is still bigger than the biggest fight you can't make. Why is Floyd on 24/7 talking shit with Ortiz? Because, in the immortal words of Uncle Roger, people believe in bullshit. Yet the Klitschkos are the problem. The Heavyweight division is the problem.

 

Hey...you said it. Tough. It was enough then, and it should be enough now.

Hell, Benny Lynch got into the hall of fame off the back of beating up some guy called Kane, and all Kane could do was take a beating.

 

The Klitschko's are ATG's. There I said it, I'm done denying it. To me, the fact that they will not fight eachother doesn't bother me, they will go down as the only brothers to ever dominate the HW division at the same time. History remembers things that are different than the norn. Lennox Lewis is talked about as one of the ATG's, whhat a difference a few years make, he was getting every bit as much hate as the Klitschko's when he was active.

 

Actually, you did as of now.

 

You can't fault a fighter for living in a weak era, just because you don't know how they would do in another era, doesn't mean they wouldn't be just as dominant. We just don't know. List some ATG HW's that you think without a doubt would beat Wlad or Vitali? I would automatically remove any HW under 200lbs from the list of guys who could beat a Klitschko, ain't happening.

 

I don't think the brothers will be remembered as Greats apart from outside of America. That said you are spot on about the rest. History remembers the strange and the odd as much as it remembers the talented or the rich. Lewis was despised. As he failed to beat the 10 count in South Africa, we were met with the words of Jim Lampley......."We got a brand new heavyweight champ. And he's from the USA".

 

Neither of them particularly impress me (in most areas) but the love for Vitali (who is every inch nothing more than Jess Willard on hi-def TV) always raises a chuckle.

 

Vitali would punch the shit out of Jack Dempsey and wouldn't need 25 rounds to get rid of a no-talent bum like Jack Johnson either.

 

that's ridiculous. Vitali is much more skilled than Willard ever was. if he weren't, he'd have been beaten by now. and that's taking into account the lack of talent in today's heavyweight division.

 

Not sure if you floated this out there just for the sake of a reaction or if you truly believe it. Will give you a chance to defend yourself before I respond.

 

opcorn:artie:

 

A part of me wishes that Vitali never returned. Had he stayed retired, I firmly believe that Wlad could've run the table on his own.

Vitali's return somewhat serves as a roadblock for Wlad ever becoming an ATG. Not that Vitali's opp was a slew of worldbeaters or anything - but add a few of those names to Wlad's resume and you have perhaps the most dominant HVY champ ever.

I personally think both should land in the HOF when all is said and done. All you can do is fight what's out there.

At the very least, Wlad hasn't left a single challenge on the table. Povetkin is probably the closest thing to a remaining threat, and he/his handlers have thrice turned down Wlad. He gets his ass handed to him by either Klitschko and ditto for Helenius. who takes an even worse beating.

 

Everything looks flashier on Blu-Ray. Even arm-punching ::

 

"Ramonza had never asked me to believe any of his shit before, and now here he was saying that Jess Willard could share a ring with Vitali Klitschko. Thats when I knew that Jess Willard would never have come back from there alive"- Jake Donovan.

 

I'm not sure about the bit on Helenius, but the rest is correct.

Ask yourself one thing: what is it about the Klitschkos that they would happily slice the cake up amongst themselves??

Personally, I think they did it to spite boxing.

 

My biggest concern about Helenius (who is actually very fun to watch) is that he's way too hittable.

You might be right on why the Klits decided to take the route they've traveled. Back when HBO was trying to sell the whole global domination angle, their dream was always to rule the division together.

That said, Wlad seemed genuinely annoyed when he found out Vitali was unretiring to face Peter. I think what makes it harder to accept is that while Wlad has faced/beaten the superior competion, few if any would ever pick him to beat Vitali straight up. If Vitali had the better resume and was the lineal champ, it'd be an easier argument to settle.

 

Well for the record, I don't own Blu-Ray and despite having a HD TV, have never watched the Klitschkos on it (usually stuck watching fights on my crappy 10-yr old TV, or even my laptop while everyone in my house enjoys modern technology ::)

Seriously though, Vitali is one of the most intimidating HVY's ever. Dude is just scary to look at, never mind actually get in the ring with. I despised him during his post-Lewis run when he pulled that crap with the injuries and pushing off the Rahman fight, but he has since certainly earned his keep - and my respect (and then some).

 

Hey Jake,

you ever hear of a guy called Vince Phillips?

he actually was a welterweight and get this... he moved DOWN to junior welterweight to win a title!

 

What can I say? We are watching different men.

 

Most would pick Vitali, but head to head matchups are obviously based more on styles than physical attributes. I think Wlad matches up pretty well with his brother one on one. Wlad's biggest weaknesses are his chin and lack of any form of in-fighting game. Those aren't things Vitali is likely to exploit very much.

 

Next time you catch a glimpse of Vitali's head....when he is sitting in the corner is a good time.......he has the skull that a lot of legitimately strong men have...the skull of a Gorilla. Large jaw, sloping forehead, heavy brow- Neanderthal mans face. He is a legitimately mean and atavistic creature. In terms of character and behaviour traits, I would say him and Wladimir have almost nothing in common.

 

Jake knows a lot about boxing but he's not an encylopedia.

 

good point, that was a pretty obscure fact