Is Victor Ortiz a career 140 pounder?

Why would I sig bet that he WILL return to 140? That contradicts every single point I've been making. Do you know how to read?

 

What does that have to do with anything? If he balloons up in weight and fights at 154, what will that make him??? A Career light-middle??

This is what fucks me right off. Chris Byrd FOR YEARS was known as a "Blown Up Super-Middle" now all of a sudden we have to regard Ortiz as a Welterweight with a "functional" {the mother of all fucking euphemisms for a blown-up man} weight-advantage. They wouldn't acknowledge that Byrd was a heavyweight, now there is an insistence on treating Ortiz as a Welter.

If Berto demands WADA and gets it, and beats Ortiz, then yeah, I can see Ortiz either retire or go back to 140 in some way shape or form. There's a few ifs in there, but this is certain: even if he WASN'T a career 140lbr, that wouldn't make him a career-anything-else-lbr.

I have no dog in this race. Lampley should have called him what he was: a chemically puffed up little guy carrying extra weight.

 

Yep, just as I expected, hook, line and sinker :Thumbs:

 

My point is not that he's a career-anything-elser. My point is that he is currently a welterweight, one who is very unlikely to ever make 140 again. If he's on some shit, he's going to stay on it, he already had to undergo WADA/USADA testing for Floyd and he didn't have any issues with that.

Also - he weighed 164 for the Floyd fight and 161 for the Maidana fight, so he puffed himself up by a whole 3 lbs? I'm curious why you think he is carrying extra weight, what you think that extra weight consists of, and what PED regimen was used to add it if any.

Chris Byrd and Ortiz are not at all analogous, I have no idea why you are comparing the two. Byrd ate and lifted his way to heavyweight, and looked a little chunky as a result. His way of competing at the weight was by avoiding the power of the much bigger men he was fighting.

Ortiz dieted and dehydrated heavily to get down to 140, and was ripped. He is not usually at a power or strength deficit vs his opponents.

 

What exactly do you feel you accomplished there? Making me think you couldn't comprehend what you read? I already thought that. What appears likely is that you unthinkingly said something stupid, and then when called out on it, pretended it was what you meant to do all along.

 

Im built like a prime Charlie Magri

 

Ricky Hatton is a career 1/4 pounder with cheese and chips

 

At the time that Evander Holyfield had defeated Buster Douglas for the Heavyweight crown had had spent the vast majority of his then career at Cruiserweight. Would it have been fair to label him as a career crusierweight?

The context in which MWS said it was to suggest that Ortiz is not a true Welterweigth in size and capability in that division. So let's get to the meat of what he was getting at and apply that logic to Evander. Was Evander not a TRUE Heavyweight when he wrestled the championship away from teh man who busted Mike Tyson?

 

You are very simplistic in your thinking. Hearns was therefore a Welterweight when he fought Hagler.

Hopkins was a middleweight when he fought Calzaghe.

Mosley was a lightweight when he fought Forrest.

How and where do you draw the line?

 

Sly, basically it's about more than size, it's about experience and effectiveness within a division.

Size wise I'm not saying Ortiz is undersized at 147, or smaller than Floyd, but quite simply in his whole career before fighting Floyd he'd fought ONE welterweight. So you tell me, is he a 140 pounder or a welter?

If 90% of his fights have been at under 147, against mostly 140 pounders, then he's a career junior welter and that was exactly my point.

 

slippery slope...

 

How badly do you guys want to break Irish's fingers every time he types 'functional'?

 

When Holy beat Buster he was a career cruiser who was starting to make an important mark at HW. Of course, over time you couldn't say that he was a career cruiser, because a considerable chunk of his eventual career was fought at HW.

MTF :dunno:

 

Yeah but at the time...did he not PROVE that he was formidable at Heavyweight? Is this not the point of the exercize that MWS was alluding to? :dunno:

 

::

 

Not suprised. I mean, whatever makes Floyds record look better. Right?

 

Sly is fucking funny ::

 

Having fought one welterweight doesn't make him a junior welterweight. It makes him a welterweight who is relatively unproven. Once again, the division you are in is based on nothing more than how much you weigh. Not whatever other subjective asinine criteria you care to introduce.

 

It might have been a fair statement about Holyfield at that point.

But it's an apples to apples comparison. First, Holyfield had already been at HW for 2 years and 6 fights before Douglas. Second, Cruiser had ALWAYS been considered a pit stop for Holyfield literally from the time he first beat Qawi.

Again, the idea of referring to Ortiz as a career junior welterweight stems from his career THUS far. He's still only 25 years old. 10 years from now, who knows.

 

10 years from now he might be remembered as a middleweight. A crappy, heartless one ::

But having fought the majority of his career THUS FAR at 140, a career junior welter is exactly what he is.

Just like Tall Paul despite being fucking MASSIVE at the weight. Though Paul actually fought at 154/160 for the first couple of years of his career before he started boiling down to 147 for the majority of his fights thereafter.

Again, weight divisions are what you can get down to, not what you come to the ring as or walk as.

Hypothetically, if Bernard Hopkins walked around at 210 and came to the ring weighing 190, he's still a career middleweight, as that's the weight he campaigned at, fighting middleweights.

 

Okay, again stressing that I am not in this debate, one way or the other....Hatton fights Collazo at 147, looks like shit for the most part.

What is he? A Light-Welterweight or an Unproven Welterweight?/

:dunno:

We can pick examples to fit either argument. Its a question of context, depending on the individual fighter.

 

If pbf fought him, he's either used up or not acclimated to the weight or just plain crappy.