Is Wlad an All Time Great Heavyweight?

Allot of apriori reasoning there. I've never seen any evidence that loses negatively effect fighters. BEATINGS do, both in victory or defeat.

 

What the fuck are you talking about? At least try and make sense next time, retard.

 

The idea of a guy who got sliced and diced by Ken Norton blasting out Ernie Shavers.......oh wait. :doh:

"fought scared" ::

Stick to the facts lad. I have no problem at all with people being critical of Wlad, he fucks me off a lot of the time, but there are facts to be observed. He routinely nails guys hard and has them in trouble. Chagaev and Chambers went right to the very end, but both guys were severely discomfited long before the end came.

Any of the shots he hit Brock, Chambers or Chagev with would have been more than enough to put, and keep, a guy like Shavers in his place.

 

Most people who take beatings end up losing, ergo losing adversely affects fighters?

MTF :dunno:

 

Absolutely. Some fighters aren't the same after WINNING a particularly brutal fight, but there's almost nothing to suggest a fighter is easier to beat after a loss, just your average loss.

You take a look at all the top fighters within the most recent 3 decades or so, 90% of them are no more beatable after a loss, and more of them are less beatable, arguably, as they become more experienced.

 

Pretty much everyone here. So, boxing fans I'd say.

 

They're two different things. Related but different. And even if a guy takes a tanking, it's no guarantee he'll be diminished.

 

jajaja

 

I'm reading "The Professional" by Bill Heinz. Any of you fellows read it? Some cool stuff in there. Just don't tell me what happens. :nono:

 

:: It gets better every time.

 

I agree there is no guarantee. There are lots of examples of fighters who lose, and lose badly but come back very strongly afterwards and become much better fighters.

MTF

 

he never fought the best heavyweight out there...therefore i respect any boxer who fought the #1 more than i respect wald pussy athetic:

 

Like my sig?

 

Hold on a moment. I get what I think you are trying to say. But Wlad never laid down, always got up, always fought on. How can anyone say he was not defiant in the face of violence inflicted upon him? Do you think he hurts people when he hits them? Do you think a grown man with his arms wrapped around his head and a mouthful of his own blood is in a good place or a bad place? Wlad puts very dangerous people into a shell and makes them wish they weren't there.

How did Mike Tyson respond to adversity? By biting? That was his defiance? By trying to break Botha's arm? By whining to Aaron Snowell?

Once we go down that route, we find lots to displease us.

There are far worse entertainers and fighters out there than Wlad who escape a lot of the flak they might well expect to catch.

 

So you elevate fighters who lose in your personal rankings, right? Shit, 90% of them are no worse after a loss and most of them are even better.

 

I actually laugh every time I see it.

MTF :bears:

 

MTF :bears:

 

"Is that it? Was that it. Sniffle."

::

 

Civilized & cerebral just isn't what we want. Tyson biting off an ear & going to prison gave us it, chess playing heavyweights with phds dont. There's an itch in a dirty place needs scratched, just the way it is. It's why men watch gangster films so much. Even in snooker folk wanna watch Ronnie O'sullivan/Jimmy white not steve davis/stephen hendry....whatever worm in the human soul accounts for that is 10x bigger in a boxing fan. It's not about bravery its about aggression or menace or something

 

I voted yes in the poll since 10 years after he retires people will be comparing him with ATGs. So he's basically an ATG.

 

Spot on...however 'wrong' it might be

MTF

 

I agree with this, you know I do, its not something I would attempt to deny in a million years. But, as Pasternak once wrote, cutting out the tumours of injustice is a deep operation, during which life must be kept alive, by living.

Quarry died with cornflakes for brains, on a table in a hospital, with fluid filled lungs. Ali wanders around in a pea-soup of shrouded reaction times and delayed actions interspersed with bouts of delayed reactions. Frazier pitched up penniless with a football for a liver.

We need a balance. I don't dispute what you say, but Mike is on anti-depressants, and I ain't about that either.

 

Its not that its wrong, its that its futile and transient. Nobody wants to get stabbed at an event. Nobody wants the guy they just watched to die at the age of 50, as ignorant of his name as the day he was baptized. If I have to endure some "Boredom" to avoid both of these scenarios, then, you know....I might just be ok with that.

 

I'd say the consistent approach is to stop watching the sport or come to terms with what it satisfies. I'm pretty comfortable with the latter it seems like a healthy-ish way to get it out my system. Being a boxing fan who dislikes fighters who take pleasure in violence kinda seems like the line in apocalypse now about putting band aids on enemy casualties

 

Nah, there has to be something more than that. Klitschko vs Thompson isn't what we want, but if that's too little, then Chisora vs Haye, and all it entails, might be too much.

That's all I am saying.

 

Look at this clip. Twice Wlad tries the patented Manny Grab, and twice it fails, then when it succeeds, he gets tagged on the way in. So he says "fuck this", and starts letting his hands go, and has immediate success, stepping in with a big right, letting his hands go, and driving his man back. He even throws left hooks down and up.

He has the tools. The knife has been blunted to protect its owner, which is a pity.

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No doubt he has the tools. The problem is, he can't fight like that over several rounds with fighters who know how to survive. He's too prone to falling apart.

 

He has some of the best tools ever, just such a damn shame he's the one and only wald pussy. Big old loveable wald pussy.

 

And when he rocks him back to the turnbuckle the first thing he thinks to do is to rush in & clinch. He's one of the best offensive fighter ever but stuff like that is just too frustrating.

FWIW....i kinda go in cycles of hating Wlad then begrudgingly enjoying him and back again. The Mormeck fight has me in a yang phase for a bit, i'll come back out of it.

 

Foreman has the same problem. He's an ATG.

Very few 240lb 6'6" guys know how to fight like that and keep it going for the distance. Its a very rare talent. Even Holy needed Balco to keep it going.

I think people are far too critical of a guy who has by and large been a force for good.

He annoys fuck out of me too, but the furtive hedgehog and the smelly skunk are all entitled to endeavour to persevere. What's he supposed to do, roll over? :dunno: