Joe Calzaghe v Gerald McClellan

Agreed. I have never shared Huts admiration, nor his acceptance, of cheating.

Between the honest Joe working like a dog to feed his family, and the career criminal worth an illegal fortune, I know who'd Ive had more time for.

Give me slapping over elbows, butting, and thumbs anyday.

 

-hurt, + exhausted

 

Gimme boxing as a fight > touch scoring contest

 

No. Boxing is a sport, with rules. Taking advantage of an incompetent ref isn't cool or clever in my eyes. I'm consistent with this too, Lennox Lewis is my favourite fighter, but I HATED it when he used to hold behind the head. Not least because he was good enough to win without doing that shit.

 

Holding behind the head & throwing massive uppercuts isn't crafty it's flagrant. There was no presense of mind or ring awareness to be admired there, the blind guy in row MM could see that shit.

Let me clarify - I dont admire offensive cheating per se. I admire the craft it takes to do it subtly, persistently and get away with it. And I tend to like the mindset of guys like that for whom boxing is a FIGHT first and foremost a contest to hurt another guy and break him down, rather than a contest to impress judges with eye catching all-sizzle bullshit. Its a mindset that goes along with effective body punching, quality shots over a quantity of shots, subtly effective defense including a willingness to roll with shots rather than block them to retain position to reply with more effective returns. A mindset that's being corroded out of the sport with the abolition of 15 rounders and the change in amateur rules.

 

Because theres no inbetween?

 

All boundries are a just the curse of Adam's classifying in Eden, dawg

 

There is a moment in the first Louis-Conn fight. It's somewhere around the 11 or 12-round mark. It's clear Louis is in significant trouble, at least with the cards. Louis backs Conn up with a volley of punches, & Conn, panicked against the ropes, entangles his right arm. You can see Louis hesitate --- he lets him off the hook.

For something to admire, give me that over a shot to the balls or a, "subtle banging of the hips," any day of the week.

 

Sure, very admirable, a stand up chap. It's a pretty clouded system of ethics which sees a huge difference between knocking him out there and knocking him clean out in the next round though. If he wanted to be a pacifist and save Conn brain trauma he should have A) chosen a different profession B) not signed up to fight him in a fist fight. But hey, his desire to appear lily white didnt cost him the title this time so alls well that ends well

 

This isnt Mad Max's Thunderdome --- it's Boxing. The rules arent there for the sake of it.

If a boxer cannot bring himself to fight within the regulations, it is he, not Joe Louis, who should question his choice of profession.

 

It's unethical to do anything which would put your opponent in more danger of serious injury than he can reasonably anticipate when he signs up for the match. Egregious rabbit punching, violent, irresponsible headbutting, hitting a downed opponent.

Anything less than that may be 'unsporting', but when the name of the game is knocking the other guy unconscious and avoiding him doing the same to you that's a petty, servile & ultimately dishonest concern.

Beyond that I regard boxers as having a bond of obligation to the viewers who pay their fee not to cheat to escape fighting.

That's the true ethics of the situation....it's a barbaric sport, lets not delude ourselves by sugar coating it.

 

You seem to believe the fact it's fighting is carte blanche for doing away with the rules which make the sport what it is.

Tell me how you feel about players taking dives for penalties or free kicks.

 

I love that bandwagon, Hut, brilliant!:laughing:

 

Found some pretty interesting footage of Joe Calzaghe training here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x1K5UH2nek

 

:atu::atu:

 

While REED Doesn't Really CONDONE the Use of Illegal Tactics, the Guys U Named Used them More So Out of CONTEMPT or MALICE than Desperation...Like U Said, they Could B UP 10 Rounds to 0, yet STILL Bend the Rules...


REED

 

And you seem to believe that a contest to kick an inflatable ball between some sticks is qualitatively the same as one to break bones in each others face and knock each other unconscious. You're kidding yourself. There's stuff you justifiably do in war you don't do in peace. Protect yourself at all times - to the very best of your ability.

 

So if you bite the other guy's nose off in a very subtle manner, that's ok? Or where do you draw the line?

 

^^

This is basically how I feel about that Ugo. Hip banging and sneaky elbows might be unsporting but I think its a dishonest, phoney morality that says its any worse than that.

 

OMG. This Devil's Advocate stuff is getting so very old.

 

I just wanted to ask what Hut thinks since I see things very differently from him and asked the question in a more colorful manner which was not supposed to be taken literally, which HutHut obviously understood. OMG.

 

:l2:

Fucking classic!

 

did you guys see that training footage?

 

Then you should re-write the rules. It's Boxing, and what youre describing objectively is not Boxing.

But its a combat sport so hey, that makes it all okay ::

 

Actually, Yes. Both have shitty levels of opposition. I would argue that Hopkins' resume at Middle is just as shitty as Calzaghe's. Hopkins' best wins were against welterweights. Hopkins also lost to the best actual middleweights he fought Roy Jones(no shame there) and Taylor(::::) Jermain fucking TAYLOR TWICE.

Calzaghe called " the welterweight killer" Hopkins out for near a decade. Once they met,Calzaghe easily outpointed him and Hopkins tried to quit.

I would sooner agree that neither were all time greats rather than Hopkins is and Calzaghe is not. In fact, Calzaghe had a better career. Hopkins beating young guys who can't fight a lick like Pascal and Pavlik is just more of his trickery.Keep in mind, Pavlik and Pasal are upper tier fighters today, but neither can fight. It is more an indication of how shitty boxing has become rather than Hopkins supposed and fictional greatness. When Hopkins fights good fighters his size he mostly lost. His best win ever was against Tarver who was also in his mid thirties at the time of the bout.


As for GMAN/Calzaghe there is really not much of a chance for the gman. There is a bunch of fiction and unintentional humor in this thread. The gman's supposed "nuclear" punching power is a myth. He was Lightheavy who fought middleweights. The guy had solid power, but he was just bigger. Keep in mind, he lost to Dennis "The Magician" Milton whose only tv appearance I ever saw was him lasting less than 3 minutes versus Julian Jackson. He outpointed Mccellan. The difference in skill level is gigantic. Calzaghe outpoints him and gives him a Lacy-like beating. Benn never had a great chin. He didn't develop one because he willed it. Mccellan moved up and fought a real middleweight and he couldn't even take out Nigel Fucking Benn. Benn was knocked out by a jab from Michael Watson. The gman was average puncher at his true weight. The fact he couldn't kayo Benn speaks volumes.

 

mcClellan did KO benn.

 

I did, but when I started getting a boner I switched it off, lest any weird associations get triggered off next time I see the Calzaghe-Manfredo stoppage

 

Boxing is what happens in boxing rings between boxers.

 

100% correct

MTF :bears:

 

Except when Ray Leonard does his (legal) thing to Roberto Duran?