Joe Calzaghe vs Chad Dawson at 175..

If you think that Hopkins was the same at 43 as he was in his mid-30s, I really don't know what to tell you. There's no point to this conversation then.

 

I always predicted Roy would lose that fight. And when Roy finally stopped ducking the fearsome Calzaghe, I was proven right.

 

Obviously I don't, but lets not pretend he was shot like Roy either, he was still good enough to dominate an unbeaten champion in his very next fight. As was mentioned previously, Calzaghe tried to make the fight when they were both in their primes and Hopkins didn't take it. Be it money or whatever, the fact remains Joe tried to prove he could beat Hopkins when it mattered, whilst Bernard didn't take on Calzaghe until he had nothing to lose.

 

Nice. But still, I don't see where Roy comes into this discussion? When people find a post from me picking Calzaghe to beat a prime Jones then we can go over it, otherwise it's just a pointless diversion like the whole Bob Foster nonsense which always comes up.

 

Bob Foster would have decapitated Calzaghe in a fit of rage after taking a slap "Shit... this motherfucker tryin' to slap me like a bitch???":crafty:

 

Foster gets slapped and put in his place

 

yeah, by his mother who shames him for committing cold blooded murder durng a sporting event

 

No. Hopkins stayed near 160 all year round including in the ring. He was a proper middleweight, unlike say Taylor or Pavlik.

 

So? If he wants to stay at 160 all year round that's his thing, he started his career at 175, and had a light-heavy frame

 

That he looked big is neither here or there....he was a genuine middleweight (as the fact he campaigned there for 15 odd years without scale 'cheating' makes axiomatic).

 

He had 1 fight at 175, which he lost. He said himself he was eating garbage and out of shape.

 

"Hopkins was green at 170"

- Muzse


:mut:

 

Calzaghe was also past his best. What was that, Joes first fight at 175? 2nd?

I think Joe would have beaten Dawson off of the usual intangibles, coupled as they are with the fact that Chad's usual advantages {Southpaw, fast hands, slick} would be pretty well, if not completely, off-set by Joe's own talents.

Personally I think it would be an utter stink fest in any case. Its a fight Joe didn't miss much avoiding, because we'd have been treated to the usual "Oh, Dawson turned out to be shit anyways" routine.

 

Calzaghe being past his best is an oft repeated claim without a shred of evidence to commend it. He sure looked a hell of a lot better beating Kessler and Lacy than he had labouring through reid, Starie, Woodhall et al.

 

Stairie ran, and against Reid, he broke his hand. Same with fights against the competent but totally irrelevant Evans Ashira. Calzaghe broke his hand there too.

 

Joe would break his hand in a pillow fight.

 

I think it's a load of shit, frankly

Guy looked exactly the same

 

I think he was better, later. The 'slappy' volume, mixed with the odd hard one to keep the other guy honest was a formula he perfected as he went. Maybe because of hand problems...

 

If he had any issue, it may have been an acute case of Adult Onset Homosexuality

 

The thing about a guy being "past/passed his best" is that its usually too narrowly defined.

For most people, a guy us "past it" when

1) he reaches some age, depending on weight-class, but usually 29+ for midgets to 37+ for the heavies.

2) he's had too many hard fights.

In my opinion, those criteria are simply not sufficient. They are way too narrow.

Take Vitali: the notion that he was in his "Prime" when he fought Lewis. Why? Because he was younger and lighter than Lewis? He may have been more in his prime but that doesn't mean he was at his very best. The guy had blown out his shoulder in 2000 and hurt his back again in 2001. In 2005, he blew out his knee.

Chances are in 2008 he was in better knick than when he beat Williams in 2004. But the Vitali that knocked out Herbie Hide in 1999 would have obliterated Dereck Chisora. So even though 2008 Vitali was better than 2004/2005 Vitali.....we can see that, if we go back far enough......we've got a different proposition again.

Take Roy Jones. The night Roy beat Ruiz he was pretty fresh. He has no more fights, but just drops weight to fight Tarver, part one. That episode, the weight and the fight, as good as ended his career. He went from a pretty-prime dude to a shot dude overnight. Ruined his body and reflexes. Wasn't really too much older, he had NO fights between Ruiz and Tarver....yet went into that fight in pretty bad shape.

Take Calzaghe. A guy in the first flush of youth and two broken hands.....is not in his prime. An older,slower smarter Calzaghe with two good hands....is obviously a far sterner proposition. I wouldn't disagree with this for a minute.

Joe, at his best, is probably a bit of young Joe with a bit of healthy Joe.

If I am born crippled and suddenly am cured at the age of 50.....what's my prime? I reckon it's the age of 50.....

Semantics maybe but worth a look nonetheless. I feel better at 33 than I did at 23. Yet the consensus attitude is that I am past-my-best. I would disagree. My asthma is under control, almost gone, I am stronger, got better reflexes, feel much better, got more skeletal muscle, can go without sleep for longer, don't look or sound much older.

Prime is a relative subjective concept that goes beyond age or mere chronological factors, but definitely, at the more pronounced ends of the spectrum, involves both of those.

 

Right. I'm hungover so I'm straining for an appropriate metaphor but any one boxing intangible, like age, or being undefeated, might be like turning down the 'midi' on a mixing desk. Does that correspond to a reduced overall volume? Taken in isolation, yes; in more situations than not, yes, but it's one of 20 sliders so not necessarily.

 

Yeah......what's the prime? :dunno:

20% youth, 80% experience?

Does physical prime matter in boxing as much as in other sports?

It seems not.

Agreed on the 20 sliders thing.

 

David Silva you stupid fucking cunt.

 

there's more scope for skilled guys to last as the standard keeps declining, i suspect. I doubt Hopkins or Marquez would have thrived as long 30 years ago, even if they'd stayed as 'fresh'.

Floyd will probably be with us for another decade:34::giggle:

 

I think Calzaghe wins this fight by outworking Dawson who can be lazy sometimes.