Joe Louis vs. Rocky Marciano

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You're quite right, I have to say I never bothered to think about the distinction between the two words. Cheers.

Nevertheless, making infrequent grammatical errors is one thing, thats a level of idiocy I can deal with. I can still tie my shoe laces, know that fire will burn, understand traffic lights, know not to drink water directly from the kettle, know not to scoop the toast out with a fork while the red lights on, know which voice is the chemist explaining my medication and which is the rambling voice in my head. The kind of mental warping involved in thinking Fabio Moli is better than Joe Louis on the other hand....damn.ray:

 

Your idiocy is worse than I thought. I never said Fabio Moli could beat Joe Louis. He might win a SD.
Stop making excuses. You didn't know a very basic grammatical distinction. I think suicide might be in order. I don't think you have ever seen Joe Louis fight. If you had, you certainly would not be defending him.

John Ruiz kayo 6 Joe Louis.

 

Uh huh. I actually never said you did. I said you said he was better, which since Fabio Moli is a top 50 fighter in todays division, you did. Clearly your knowledge of grammar is allot better than either your knowledge of boxing or your ability to actually comprehend the content of what's being written.

And yes, I've stumbled upon footage of Joe Louis once or twice. Probably the most perfect puncher in the history of the sport, you could just about put every recorded frame of every punch he ever threw in a text book. Admittedly he's no John 'Quiet man' Ruiz, but I think he might sneak at least a draw against Fabio Moli, even given all the incredible modern advances in athleticism and technique that he so impressively exemplifies. :shit:

 

Would you put his defense against right hands into a textbook too? Max Schmeling looked like an army sniper in the first fight. His perfect punches were so perfect against a drunken and small Billy Conn is took him 13 rounds to dispose of his smaller and less talented foe. I think you should put your footage in an omegascope and examine it. Feel free to call on me here if you need to learn something about boxing.

 

I think you need to learn something about boxing. Almost 70 fights with more than half of them at the championship level and Louis was stopped 1 time prior to his final fight with Marciano.

Schmeling was a former champion and managed to stop a 22 year old Louis. After that Louis ripped off the most impressive heavyweight resume in history. And you call him talentless???

Yep, someone needs to learn about boxing. :doh:

 

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Bum of the month club? Ever heard of that Boxing Guru::::

 

There were 'bums', there were good fighters, and there were future and former champions. The bottom line is it was 15 years and 40+ fights between his loss to Schmeling and his loss to Marciano.

Talentless? You might want to re-think that if your sole defense is "Bum of the month".

What I always find funny is Marciano's biggest and most notable win was the dramatic 13th round KO of Walcott. Yet an aging Louis stopped Walcott in 11 rounds 4 years earlier.

And then guys like Ike consider Marciano a world-beater while calling Louis a talentless hack. Unreal rationale.

 

:bears:

 

Only problem is I never said Rocky was a world beater. Marciano had a terrible level of opposition. The only difference is Rocky kayo'd his bum of the month club. Joe got dropped and stopped by a half dead Max Schemling. Oh yeah, I forgot he avenged it. That is the only one that counts::::Rocky would have lost to any decent modern heavyweight. Louis would have been ktfo. I cannot believe people can watch either one of those guys fight and consider them all time greats, especially with Louis and his glass chin. I know he was stopped only twice but against talentless cruiserweights. I would hate to see what Ali, Foreman, Tyson, Holyfield or Lewis would do to either one of these guys.

 

WOoooo there stranger.

This may be the first time I've ever heard someone seriously say that there exists a better HW resume than Muhammad Ali's.

I actually agree with Ike about Joe Louis, perhaps not to the same extremes...but Louis resume is objectively worse than Ali's.

I mean, its not even a contest.

 

I don't mean to keep jumping in here, but Joe Louis lost to the best fighter he ever fought IMO almost 10 fights before Marciano...in a landslide.

Charles?

 

Wasn't that after an almost 2 1/2 year retirement and at almost 37 years old?

Just curious if that matters?

 

OK, fair enough. Substitute the word resume with reign or tenure. Does that work for you?

Regardless of how you want to phrase it, 15 years and 40 fights at or near championship level is as good as it gets.

And back to the original point, a talentless hack would have trouble pulling that off against any level of competition.

If we're comparing apples to apples, let's be fair. A 22 year old Louis was stopped by Max Schmeling who was a HW Champion. Marciano, on the other hand, at almost 27 years old went tooth and nail for 10 rounds with Roland LaStarza before winning a disputed SD. What do you think happens if a 22 year old Marciano faced Schmeling?

There are skilled fighters like Joe Louis and there are unskilled hard workers that came along at the right time like Marciano. Period.

 

Well, let's say we quit skewing the point. You said Louis was not a talent. If that's your stance, give me the name of a talented HW from say 1933-1958???

Surely in that 25 year span there was at least one talented HW that you can use an example to show me the difference between talent and a non-talent such as Louis... Right?

 

There were no talents. Compared to today, as bad as the division is, it is better than it was. The heavyweight division didn't start until Ali. At lighter weights you have talents, like Archie Moore. Still, they were too small. Joe Louis and Rocky would be dead, I mean dead today and especially in the 70's era. Again, I will reinsert my point that I don't care how long a guy's streak is. Bhop had a shitload of defenses against no one really great. Louis fought who was around. A heavyweight is the king and shouldn't move down so it isn't his fault. Based on some of his defenses, I think he was a lucky man to fight in a generation dominated by war and extreme poverty when most of the talented athletic talent was fighting in wars or working 10 jobs to put food on the table.

Btw, getting kayoed by Schmeling and getting completely beaten(it wasn't a lucky punch) is far worse than anything that Rocky did.

 

Well, just so I'm clear, Louis would be dead against today's heavyweights because they are more talented than he was?

I'm a little slow, so help out. You are basically saying that Valuev, for example, would beat Joe Louis because he is more talented than the Brown Bomber was? Not because of size, but simply because of talent?

Wow, I don't know that you should ever question anyone's boxing knowledge again. Maybe I'm wrong.

:doh::doh::doh::doh:

 

No. His I don't think Joe was a talent but he was more talented than Valuev. No Joe would lose because he did not have a good chin and he was small. I don't see the talent Joe had. It could be the old film. What i DID see is him getting bombed the fuck out by max schmeling.

 

Well, if all you've seen of Louis is the first fight with Schmeling then your opinion is shit.

Try watching as much film on Louis as you can possibly find. Watch his subtle footwork, body positioning, counter punching, amazing balance, and short crisp punching.

Personally, even given the quality of most video of Louis, I still don't think I've ever seen a HW block a punch and counter or parry a punch and counter as smoothly as Louis did.

I'll be the first one around here to pick today's bigger, stronger Heavies to beat those from the past. Size is too difficult to ignore. However, that doesn't mean there wasn't real talent in guys like Johnson, Dempsey,Tunney, and Louis.

 

Johnson, Dempsey and Tunney:::::::Subtle foot work::::Jesus, I have seen Robots more fluid.

 

Louis may not have the size/chin to hang with some of the later HWYs, but he was one of the best HWY combination punchers I've ever seen.

 

But then again, you basically said that Ruiz and Valuev have better footwork than Louis so your opinion is questionable at best.

As I said, watch some film on Louis and try paying attention to how his feet subtly keep him in range to slip and counter from the perfect distance.

It's subtle stuff and the average mongoloid that thinks Valuev is more talented than Louis obviously wouldn't have a clue.

:atu:

 

::::Jerk off. I didn;'t say Ruiz had better footwork. He would have kayo'd Loius though for sure. Ruiz is no Max Schmeling is he::::

 

:doh: yeesh

 

Louis p4p had the offensive talent that Trinidad had. move forward, land well timed, well placed combinations, confusing opponents with pain.

 

People may laugh @ this comparison, but I've considered the two quite similar B4 myself.

 

maybe in the same way that Ali and Zab Judah are similar

 

I suspect that you're one of those that would laugh @ the comparison then?

 

I see where you're coming from with it. They're fairly similar stylistically, I just think Louis was much better. Much more accurate, compact puncher, much better at picking off shots on the way in, much better balance, much better jab, much more composed and intelligent. If this was a multiple choice boxing IQ test you might say Tito is to Louis as Don Curry is to Ali.

 

Fair enough. I agree with that. Nicely put.