Lol. AJ's dumb, fragile ass is not beating Michael Spinks. He would have to whack him out early, and he's not Mike - I think Spinks could whether the early rounds. Once Spinks is in a rhythm, the gap in class would be huge. The Tyson fight has fooled people into thinking that every competent heavyweight with a punch could take out Spinks. It has more to do with 88 Tyson being a generational talent than it does Spinks being incapable. A fighter as fucking mediocre as AJ is not beating a fighter as great as Spinks.
Maskaev was a stretch. Oleg would have a puncher's chance, but AJ should def be the favorite in that one.
People talking about Sp8nks need to realize that,in a Mythical Match ups sense, Spinks doesn't look across the ring and see Cooney or Tangstad, he sees Tyson. Spinks had the same problems Joshua did. Let's not pretend his exploits at 200+ were exceptional. Joshua is competitive against anyone he can hit and find. I'm convinced he blows Maskaev away.
He should and would. Its no coincidence that Maskaev only notable wins were against the same guy. He's not KOg AJ with a hail Mary 1-2 like did Rahman. Rahman was so dismissive of Maskaev that he quit camp early for that one. He'd lost to Oldyfield and drawn with Phony Jim Toney (never a heavyweight in his life) by the time got round to losing to Maskaev again. I can't see AJ struggle with anyone he can hit over and over like he would Maskaev. I honestly have Maskaev down as one of the worst HW champs of all time.
AJ isn't mediocre. Michael Grant was mediocre. Charles Martin is mediocre. Joshua isn't. Spinks managed to do a lot worse than the legendary Jesse fucking Ferguson. He was badly hurt multiple times in fights with an old Holmes whose snap in every bar a jab was completely gone. No version of Holmes hits like AJ. Then throw in the huge height and reach advantages, and Joshua being a good 50lbs heavier and a damn sight better than any version of Gerry Cooney. Joshua knocks Spinks the fuck out. Don't kid yourself otherwise. Who's next? Would Tommy Hearns have beaten Joshua? What about Willie Pep?
Greatness is one thing. Being hit in the fucking head by a guy who finds your wonky knees hilarious is another. The question isn't would Spinks hit AJ, he would. He doesn't hit any harder than Usyk, if he even hits as hard. Which he probably doesn't. The question is.. "can Joshua hit Spinks".... If the answer to that is YES, then Joshua is in the fight. And as a bigger stronger harder hitting man, he's in it in a whole new way.
I'm not sure he was better than any version of Cooney. He might even have lost a shootout with Cooney, the way he threw that hook to the body and head. But its largely moot. 200lb Spinks isn't going to smash AJ.
What's happening to Joshua here now is what happened to Hatton after the Pac fight. He's being downgraded by people who are applying the most recent freshest results rather than established qualities to determine Mythical matches. Its modelling, but unlike statistical modelling, its all emotional and hyperbolic.
Spinks is the only light heavyweight i would pick over AJ, because Spinks carried the weight the best out of the light heavyweights. Did you completely miss when I said Roy couldn't do it? AJ, compared to the standard he's held to, is a shitty fighter. Hes not shitty in an absolute sense like Lance Whitaker, but he's shitty compared to any great fighter. And please dont bring up Holmes. Any version of Holmes from the 80s would find a way to beat a no-brain stiff like AJ.
Hatton was a quality fighter, and no one ever said otherwise. A lot of us have always said that AJ is shit.
Even if Spinks did carry the weight best - which he didn't - he still shouldn't be favoured over Joshua. He's 50lbs smaller... Don't go on about who he's being compared to. You literally compared him to Michael Grant. No one's saying he's a second George Foreman. I'm saying he's too big for Michael Spinks, which should really be obvious. I have no interest in Holmes vs Joshua, especially the version who fought Spinks, however, Holmes was massively struggling with Carl Williams aroumf that time. It's no forgone conclusion that he'd beat Joshua. Plus, that has literally nothing to do with the point I made. The point I made is if an old Holmes badly hurt Spinks, Joshua can knock him out.
It's all madness anyways. People will have AJ losing to Braddock next Yeah and I was one of them. He is poor but he'd have huge physical advantages over Spinks with none of the psychological impediments Usyk was able to impose on him.
I honestly can't recall a time when AJ ever threw an arrow-straight right hand off the jab, like say Arguello, Wlad, Lewis, or the shot Frankie Randall dropped Chavez with. That sort of punch. You need that sort of punch as a tall man..
Which Spinks are we talking here? Theoretical move up in his prime-ish 1st Holmes fight? Either way I think Joshua KOs him early. I think Xplosive on the right track though and someone like Cooney would likely KO Joshua. Bigger is better definitely applies to some and alot of old time fighters would need the same "help" the fighters get now. 195 LBS 13" arm Spinks probably isn't beating Klitschko, Lewis, Joshua, Fury etc. I know so many of the big guys are lumbering oafs, but so were young Foreman, Shavers, Lyle and they were 20 LBS of lean muscle smaller and not appreciably faster. Given the same stuff they're on now they would've been 240+ as well... but in a vacuum the guys now are significantly stronger.
It's a pointless discussion. It's not like any of these guys have a universally accepted "at his best" value. The guy who fancies Spinks will have Spinks at his best taking advantage of AJs flaws. The guy who fancies AJ will have him throwing weak minded knock-kneed Mike about the place.
People need to realize that an Olympic Gold means less than it used to. 1960: Ali 1964: Frazier 1968: Foreman 1972: Stevenson 1976: Stevenson (Spinks at MW I recall) 1980: Stevenson 1984 : Biggs and Tillman 1988: Lewis/ Ray Mercer 1992: Savon/Baldado 1996:Wlad/Savon 2000: AUDLEY HARRISON/ Savon 2004: Povetkin/ Solis 2008: Cammarelle/Chakhiev 2012: ANTHONY JOSHUA/ USYK 2016: Tony Yoka/ Tischenko 2020: Jaov (farce) and Cruz You have a look at that and tell me how many of them Audley beats For me theres a clear decline in quality with the odd exception. Both as amateurs vs Amateurs and Pros vs Pros. Joshua beat 2 of them as old shop worn men (in grinding wars) and got his arse spanked by the other. It has to be noted that Mike Spinks was a MW when he got his Gold but Usyk was a HW when he got his
Ali was light heavyweight champ in 1960 - not that it undermines your point at all. The Heavyweight Gold Medallist? Francesco de Piccoli. An obscure trivia question that I would have got wrong without Google....
My position ain't changing. I think Spinks would outclass that robot. Anyway, moving on, George thinks AJ has lost his identity: George Foreman blasts Anthony Joshua for being afraid in Oleksandr Usyk defeat
This seems plausible. Some fighters never find their identity back once they get beaten and AJ seems like he could be such case. He is still young though
True. I always remembered him as the HW champ. Good spot. I wonder if Piccoli got the Gold out of local politics or if he deserved it
I'm not sure, but he had a pretty abysmal pro careeer and never left Italy, so probably the former...
Exactly now all of a sudden everyone knew AJ was going to beat Usyk. He was the betting favorite for a reason. Reading comment after comment that AJ is a bum is the type of drivel I'd expect to read from Reddit not from serious boxing fans.
Watched the fight cold. Read through all of these comments after. Main thoughts: 1. Damn, did AJ look less muscular. That's no gear or different gear. I actually thought it would help him as he can be a bit robotic. Not sure if it helped or not, but he never was able to land anything dramatic. 2. Not sure what to think of Usyk at heavyweight. This win was well-earned and it's the type of win that gives anyone, including AJ, credibility who beats him later. 3. AJ can beat him in a rematch. He'll need some changes in game plan, but primarily he'll just need to land more good punches. He has the ability to do that. 4. Usyk looks a lot better with no hair. 5. We're in an era with quite a few very good heavies and shit happens when this is the case. It's not so different when the Klitschkos were dominating, it's just that the Klitschkos were so much better than the field. Truly special talents whose statures should appreciate as time goes on. The current crop makes for more enjoyable fights, though.
The thing is :- * I always said he was very suspect and overhyped. *I felt he would win last night. Joshua seems to think that if he can't get knocked out, or run out of gas, he can't lose. Maybe coming down in weight/off gear hurt him. He just seemed totally absent. I can't think of another HW champ who grinned as he got beat round like that by an underdog. Maybe Lewis vs Rahman in South Africa.
Many of us always felt Joshua was terrible and a fraud waiting to be exposed. A big stiff beating on slightly smaller stiffs. The win didn't make Usyk a great hw or anything close to it btw. He will have to beat Fury to earn this honor.
