Khan vs Peterson: Round by Round

I was mostly in line with lederman's scoring, but Khan won the 11th pretty clearly, I thought, and should have gotten the decision even with the point deductions.

For all of you defending the point deductions, please name a few other instances of fighters being deducted points for pushing a guy off of them.

 

Floyd Mayweather vs Jose Luis Castillo I

Jim Lampley called that fight and it was in Vegas...

Lampley said he'd never seen that called in Las Vegas and he was wrong.

The ref was Vic Drakulich.

If you watch the fight Floyd does the EXACT same thing except he did one better...when he pushed off he punched with the other hand (Khan isn't savvy or smart enough to do that). Floyd sometimes used the elbow under the throat, sometimes used both hands to push off Castillo.

Also...

As far as the "non hard warning"

That is bullshit as well.

In the 6th round...the second time Khan did it the ref CLEARLY told him it was the last warning. My guess the HBO guys missed it because they were too busy listening to themselves talk. The next round, the ref took the point.

No controversy.

 

Boxrec says that he was penalized for elbowing, not pushing. Also, that followed up a hitting on the break deduction for Castillo. I don't remember the fight all that well, but deductions often come pretty easy to even up a possible mistake from earlier.

Khan didn't use his elbow on the deductions. He created distance. If you don't push off, you get tagged. Everyone pushes off. Everyone. Same with Khan holding his head down...when a guy comes in low, you hold the head down so you don't get his skull crashing into your face when he lifts it up.

For the sake of argument, you have named one instance of pushing being a point deduction in 2002. Any others?

 

Do what I did...watch the fight don't rely on boxing rec to tell you what happened. Khan and Mayweather did the exact same thing.

Castillo lost a point for hitting on the break (which he did)

And I said this once before...fine...say Khan shouldn't have lost the second point in the 12th...the ref had two choices...either that or punching on the break.

As I said in another thread (and the replay shows)...the ref says stop, Khan stops...looks at the ref, sees the ref stepping in, looks back at peterson then loads up on an uppercut.

A clear foul.

Lastly, the knockdown of peterson in the first was BS...he landed a punch then tripped over Khan's legs as he was trying to back out against the ropes. Khan used his elbow and pushed Peterson.

The replays don't lie.

 

Froch never fouls

 

He was grabbing him by the head between his gloves and pushing off. It's illegal and I don't think I've ever seen anybody do it more desperately or blatantly. It's called infighting and Khan wanted no part of it.

He was warned at least a dozen times. What's the point of the warnings if he just keeps on doing it with zero repercussions.

Jesus, if Khan is that scared of Lamont Petersen's head, imagine his shrieks of horror if he ever had to fight Timothy Bradley.

 

Yup. IMO, destroying Lloyd and stopping Breland are combined enough to at least match Tarver's KO of that version of Roy.

MTF

 

One more thing...you don't create space by pushing a guy off. That is illegal. Period.


The argument that no one has been penalized for it previously is a bullshit excuse. That's like saying no one ever tied together a pack of twizzlers then hung an entire family...therefore it must not be murder.

It's murder just like pushing off is a foul. Period.

This is from the ABC Boxing website...the unified rules.


http://www.abcboxing.com/documents/abcboxing_regulatory_guidelines.htm



Fouls<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O> </O>
<O> </O>
A foul is an action by a boxer, identified by the referee, that does not meet the standard of a fair blow or the conduct of a responsible professional fighter. Fouls may include, but are not limited to, the following types of contact or acts:
1. Hitting an opponent below the navel or behind the ear;
2. Hitting an opponent who is knocked down;
3. Holding an opponent with one hand and hitting with the other;
4. Holding or deliberately maintaining a clinch;
5. Wrestling, kicking or roughing;
6. Pushing an opponent about the ring or into the ropes;
7. Butting with the head, shoulder, knee, elbow;
8. Hitting with the open glove, the butt or inside of the hand, or back of the hand, <O></O>
the elbow or the wrist;
9. Purposely falling down onto the canvas of the ring without being hit or for the <O></O>
purpose of avoiding a blow;<O> </O>
10. Striking deliberately at that part of the body over the kidneys;
11. Using the pivot blow (pivoting while throwing a punch) or the rabbit punch <O></O>
(punches thrown to the back of the head and neck areas);
12. Jabbing the eyes with the thumb of the glove;
13. Use of abusive language;
14. Unsportsmanlike conduct causing injury to an opponent that does not meet the <O></O>
standard of a fair blow;
15. Hitting on the break;
16. Intentionally spitting out the mouthpiece;
17. Hitting on or out of the ropes;
18. Holding rope and hitting;
19. Biting/spitting;
20. Not following referee's instructions;
21. Stepping on opponent;
22. Crouching below opponent's belt;
23. Leaving neutral corner; and
24. Corner second shouting.<O> </O>

 

That refers to pushing, not pushing off. Khan wasn't trying to push him into the ropes or push him down, he was making space. It's so commonplace that it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise. This isn't some obvious, never seen before foul like a spinning backfist, for example. It's something that happens pretty much in every fight on every card.

 

He'll wish he did by the end of Saturday's fight, because Ward does (and will)

MTF

 

How many Pakistanis in your town?

 

I think you really meant to say the rule is so clear you simply can't accept it.

Obviously you're set to not agree at any cost so there's really no point in your continuing in this thread. Anyone who can read and comprehend can see the rule is clear and you're sticking with your personal interpretation to hang on to the tattered remains of your point.

I'd also like to point out...

The pushing rule is #6 on the list...well ahead of hitting on the break and the "Corrales rule" as I call it...spitting out the mouthpiece.

Regadless it was a close fight and again...if Peterson lost by a point due to the aid of the non-knockdown he'd have the same right to gripe. As far as I'm concerned the knockdown and point deduction cancel each other out and the second point deduction could have easily been substituted for hitting on the break...which Khan clearly did.

"HOWEVER"

I'm certain there's a ready made excuse or explanation as to how that 12th round punch on the break wasn't really a punch on the break...Khan's handspeed is such that he was EARLY on the first punch after the break.

 

Doesn't matter if there were precedence for it or not. He was warned repeatedly not to push, but kept on doing it. And there was in fact recent and definitive precedence when it came to the second point deduction, which was the first one!

 

You suggesting pushing like Khan was is not a foul?

 

he's not suggesting, that's precisely what he's saying.

 

11. Using the pivot blow (pivoting while throwing a punch) or the rabbit punch <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O></O>
(punches thrown to the back of the head and neck areas);

You can't punch while you're pivoting?

 

Yeah!!

 

Juan Diaz should have gotten DQ'd in all of his fights.

:mj:

 

And possibly Spadafora? No?

 

I guess you have to consider the source.

 

The fuck are they doing on the bus anyway? That's OUR fucking bus, dammit!

 

I'm suggesting that if it really were a foul, we would have endless examples of point deductions because it happens so much that it is an accepted part of the sport.

It just so happens that a hometown US ref decided to penalize a foreigner twice for an infraction that so far might have only been penalized once in the history of boxing.

Reference Graham Houston here: http://www.fightnews.com/Boxing/lucky-winner-peterson-khan-recap-104152#more-104152

"I had Khan winning the fight and I have never in many years covering this sport seen a boxer deducted points for pushing his opponent."

 

Counterpoint being the clip posted of Johnny Nelson, Barry McGuigan and Steve Collins talking about the fight afterward and none of them had any issue with the point deductions.

 

Nope, they aren't like that. That's a different Epic Beard Man.

KNOW YOUR BEARDS

 

None. Our contingent of Indian Sub Continentals is limited to Christians from Goa. We got it good. Yes we do, We got it good. There was a Pakistani fella who used to drive the bus when I was in College, good looking dude {no homo} he had an Oriental stripe, The Original Mongol Man, none of your Shah Khan or Imran Khan here. We used to shoot the breeze and he was into cricket. Described Pakistan as a "troubled country", and this was BEFORE Ireland bashed them in Cricket. He wasn't into the religious shite, had more of a Don Juan streak in him. He actually looked a bit Hispanic, like Julio from Serpico.

 

Listen, I'm not a letter of the law guy. Most refs will be lenient with most of those rules, because in the end, this is fighting, pure and simple.

However, if you're subtle about it, if you're nuanced you can get away with a lot of things.............and yes, that is part of the sport.

Problem with Khan, he is neither "subtle" nor "nuanced". He was not only as blatant as any boxer could possibly be about it............he basically told the ref, "FUCK YOU!"...........by continuing to be blatant about it throughout the fight. It was like he was saying to the ref..........."I'm with Golden Boy you stupid cunt, you're not gonna take another point away from me!". The dumb bastard can't even cheat skillfully, just expects to be entitled to it.

The ref was far from perfect. Khan actually was given an advantage with a knockdown he didn't earn in the first, was pretty sloppy in there several times and wanted to be a part of the action a little too much. But lets not pretend this guy was on par with that piece of shit who was involved with Mares/Agbeko I.

 

Yep, pretty much. The ref did make mistakes but Khan was doing OK out of it. What has followed the fight is a pretty concerted campaign of disinformation designed to create the impression that Khan was somehow robbed, thus creating the "Boomerang" effect, with Khan getting the decision next time out.

I wouldn't be surprised if Peterson gets docked points in the rematch by a "new", "proper" referee.

 

:laughing::laughing::laughing:

 

So, in other words, you don't know what you're talking about.

 

I didn't really see Khan doing anything abnormal in there. I can understand how referees sort of get themselves trapped when they start warning fighters about fouls and the guys keep doing it, but pushing off is something that you can ignore because it doesn't really do anything except make some distance. I think it's far more annoying when guys clinch and that rarely gets penalized. These point deductions were not the result of a ref being forced into a corner, they were the result of a ref looking to take points.

If he had just taken one point in the middle of the fight...well, that would still be bullshit, but like I said earlier, we know that bs point deductions are pretty common to make up for earlier questionable calls...in this fight, perhaps he was trying to make up for the arguable kd in the first round. However, taking the point in the 12th round for the 'foul' he did? That's bias/corruption/bullshit.

Prior to this fight, we have one possible example of someone being penalized for pushing off in the history of boxing. I know how Floyd usually pushes off and that's why I'm inclined to believe that it was the elbow (as boxrec claims) that caused the point deduction and wasn't the same thing and just pushing to get space like Khan did.

If Khan had won this fight in England the same exact way...just imagine the outcry we would have had on this site and throughout boxing.