The second Mayorga loss is debatable. I don't really hold that against him. Forrest wasn't an average talent, but he didn't fight again at 147 after the Mayo rematch, so that definitely hurts his standing. But Spinks was more average than Forrest, IMO.
He did say it, in a 60 Minutes interview a few years back....granted he wasn't shouting it from the rooftops 24/7, but he said it alright.
Tzsyu joins the line of good fighters who quit in the later stages of their career, like Chavez, Frazier, Tyson...etc.....actually his quitjob is pretty much on par with Frazier's
So what? Judah is faster than the majority of fighters around his weight. He matched up well speed wise with Floyd. Zab's definitely a better dancer though. :hammert:
Well, Tszyu reigned for a while, but longevity is not the most important factor of a champion, it's just one factor. Sven Ottke had longevity and retired "undefeated", but I considered him a very average world champion. What was Tszyu's best win, Judah? He never beat and elite fighter, he got the shit kicked out of him by cool Vince, and quit against Hatton. Maybe I exaggerate by calling him an average world champion, but he was only a bit more solid than your average champ. By the way, guys like Paulie, Urango etc, I would certainly consider BELOW average champs. An average world champion to me would be say, the Bradleys/Witters/Kotelniks/Juan Diaz's of the world. Someone like David Diaz would be a below average world champ too. I really don't see how Tszyu proved to be MUCH more than an average champ. His ability was decent, but he never beat an elite fighter, got whupped by cool Vince, then quit against Hatton only 1 fight after he looked more or less as good as ever. He was hardly shot, you can't compare it to the likes of Frazier and Tyson quitting ::
I didn't. I said Junior Witter is what I would consider to be an "average" world champ. I conceded the Tszyu is a little better and more solid than an average world champ, but not by a great deal. I don't see how he proved to be much more than that. Had a decent amount of defences against half decent comp, got the shit beaten out of him by someone he was supposed to beat, went on to beat a few more half decent fighters (sharmba, zab etc) then got beaten up and quit against Hatton. Then retired like the space monkey. That's not the legacy of someone who is that much more than an average world champ.
As they Say, "Absence Makes the Heart Grow FONDER"... REED DEFINITELY Picked AGAINST Tszyu the Majority of the Time, but Now that he's GONE & we're Able to Examine the ENTIRETY of his Career, U HAVE to Respect what Dude Accomplished... REED:hammert:
As per usual on boxing matters I agree with MWS. Tszyu is right up there with Tito as the most overrated fighter of my time following boxing.
I have to question which people on this board has seen Tszyu apart from the Zab/Mitchell/Phillips/Hatton fights. He was a fabulous fighter. There was literally nobody for him to fight at the times you guys want him to, and the Phillips/Hatton thing to me was styles. Tszyu absolutely punished boxers. He tore up orthodox fighters. And for people harping on his quit job against Hatton, you must be forgetting what Hatton was getting away with in there, that Tszyu could not have won no matter what happened in round 12, and the deliberate Tiger Uppercut to the balls he took a few rounds prior to his CORNER stopping the fight.
Tszyu was a great fighter, and I was never a fan. Top 5 all time at 140. In a head to head sense, I would pick Pryor, Benitez, and a prime Chavez over him. I think its basically a pick em between Tszyu and Cervantes, as well as Tszyu and Locche. Both Cervantes, and Locche are highly underrated and were great fighters in thier own right. BTW - I would pick Whitaker, DLH, Floyd, and Carlos Ortiz over Tszyu h2h, even though those guys didnt spend enough time at 140 to be ranked above Tszyu. A prime Tszyu woulda stopped Hatton, and probably stopped Mel Taylor late whilst behind on the cards.
I would pick whitaker maybe pryor over him at 140. But he is certainly better than poo like locche and Cervantes. And that'd be a tough match-up for Wilfredo, as mentioned again and again, timing beats speed, and Tszyu's timing is superb. The only reason I wouldn't pick Pryor to kill Tszyu, like most will, is that Pryor has a bad chin, which is fine against the basura he fought his whole career, and a 700 year old Arguello, but would've been a problem against someone with Tszyu's power/finishing ability.
I'm not even gonna bothering debating considering your retarded statements of Pryor having a bad chin, and Locche and Cervantes being trash.
Tszyu resume is horrendous, when your best wins are over Judah and Mitchell and you are being called a ATG, you know you are very overrated
Probably THE DUMBEST Shit U've EVER Uttered & That's Saying ALOT....If Aaron Pryor had a "Bad Chin", so Did Joe Calzaghe & Pernell Whittaker... Pryor's DEFENSE was Suspect, Because he Swung like a WINDMILL...& his AGGRESSION Led to Quite a Few EARLY ROUNDS Knockdowns...But to Say he had a BAD Chin is 100% INaccurate...The ONLY Time REED Saw a PRIME Pryor Look GENUINELY Hurt on a Knockdown was in the Dujuan Johnson Fight... REED:hammert:
dsimon writes: Thats the thing... One could argue I suppose... that when he beat Judah he beat him at his best when the Spaz was on the up and up and looked to be continuing on the upward trajectory.... one could even argue that Zoo ruined the spaz, though that would be pushing it already. I mean you can't get around that with Zoo and I say that as someone who appreciates his technical proficiency and all.
dsimon writes: Brother Reed please bear witness as I have never physically threatened or otherwise called another member out: But I am saying this as Reed is my witness... Double I will fuck you up you understand bitch!!!? If you EVER hack my fuckin account like you did Jaws in this thread regarding Pryer I will put you back in Rehab and not the substance abuse unit neither!!!! :flip::flip: :laughing::laughing:
you guys are apparently dumber than I thought. Joe Louis didn't have a good chin, Calzaghe doesn't have a great chin, Kelly Pavlik doesn't have a good chin, Ricky Hatton doesn't have a good chin....etc. People who get KD by single shots, hurt from guys who don't punch hard, just don't have good chins. Plenty of people who don't have great chins have never been KOd, its because those people have balls/heart which gets you by in most situations. Aaron Pryor has a poor chin, but a strong heart/extreme amount of balls as well. He NEVER,....EVER fought a fresh energized good fighter. He made his career on three wins, beating a 95 year old Cervantes, and twice beating a WAY blown up old Arguello. He gets credit for his exciting style, as well he should, but he is easily the most overrated fighter in history amongst boxing people. He never proved the ability people give him credit for.
There is a difference between being knocked off balance and being HURT, that same difference is the difference between having a bad chin and not having a bad chin Arturo Gatti got up and won or fought back in a lot of fights, but he had a bad chin because he was hurt ALL THE TIME even by guys who couldn't punch Outside of the Johnson fight, when was Pryor clearly HURT?
Jaws damn man what happened? You used to be smart, this is getting horrible now... Its Kid Dynamite all over again...ew...
you can blame a few of Pryor's canvas trips on balance, but at some point, going down against scrubs, over and over, you just don't have a good chin. To all the other fanboys chiming in. Pryor is a fucking myth. His resume is horrid, and he was put on his ass as often as another oldie but a duddy, Joe Louis.
now you ae dismissing Joe Louis???? Champion for 12 years, 25 defenses Joe Louis? THAT Joe Louis??? wow, I am surprised at you Jaws... is someone else posting on your account?
champion of the bum of the month club, dethroned by a solid LHW in Ezzard Charles, winner of 0 fights against people who would beat Vitali Klitschko in 1000 tries. The one who was dropped by Buddy Bear, and everyone else he ever fought. Yes. That Joe Louis.
