Kovalev vs. Pascal thread...

Bob Fitzsimmons might have taken it and Archie Moore might have taken it.

 

Calzaghe has a terrible resume for a guy with 46 wins but let's not pretend Kov has been knocking over a murderer's row of magnificent opponents. His best win is a guy who lost half a dozen years ago to Carl Froch. Yet several here are calling him 'special' and he's beating all-comers with ease with only RJJ likely to stop him etc

Punchers are always more overrated than others. People routinely pick them to walk through all and sundry but the reality is rarely the same. Matty Ice was last year's mythical beast, walking through all sorts of fighters with his much vaunted power after he clattered Peterdude. Soon as he fought a durable, smart, quick sort he was rumbled. Kovalev is this year's version.

I like Kovalev and rate him. He's clearly the best LHW in the world right now IMO and his power is legit. But people are going WAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYY overboard here.

MTF

 

I don't think much of pascal but what is the point to constantly mentioning that he lost to froch 6 years ago? Did he get worse or better since then?

He certainly hadn't beaten anyone worth a damn 6 years ago

 

Is there any evidence that he is better now than then :dunno: The point is that Pascal is no better than decent and he lost to a bloke that many here think is shite (you being the leading proponent of that position) yet he is Kovalev's best win. On the back of this, people are calling him 'special' and all sorts.

MTF

 

I dunno if it's so much that Kov beat Pascal, but rather the way he beat him.

Kov is the first guy to ever destroy Pascal.

Froch outfought him. Hopkins outboxed him. Kov beat the fuck outta him, and would have hospitalized him without a merciful stoppage.

In regards to Calz, I DO know that Kov's resume is superior at 31 than Calz's was at 31.

When Calz was 31, his best win was over faded Eubank who took the fight on short notice.

Kov vs Calz is indeed a MYTHICAL matchup.

If Calz was in his prime right now, we all know DAMN WELL he wouldn't move up and fight Kov. He'd keep his ass right at 168.

 

I'm actually pretty high on Calz compared to many.

At 168, the only guy I'd pick over him for CERTAIN is Jones.

I think Calz vs Ward and Toney would have been close fights.

If Toney was at his VERY BEST I think he would have beaten Calz.

Ward vs Calz...... that'd be a close, and ugly fight.

Calz beats everyone else in the history of 168. I think that's being fairly high on him.

Now, at 175....... there's MANY guys in history who beat him.

 

Part of the reason why people have fallen in love with Kovalev is his having killed a guy in the ring, his killer instinct, his easy, fluid style and his seek-and-destroy mentality. He fights the way we would all like to be able to fight. He scores lots of early KO's with no real effort. He is not Julian "MR KO" Letterlough, he's doing it with a fraction of the effort.

This is disarming, as it means people sort of "fall in love" with the guy.

 

As long as people like James Kirkland exist, I can see why people will love Kovalev.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/l39ktzZtfQk?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

Kirkland is also a guy who's easy to root for.

Fights in non-stop attack mode, has a kill or be killed mentality, only problem is...... he has zero defense and a mediocre chin.

I hope like Hell that he beats ten shades of shit outta Crapnelo....... but Ginger will stop him at some point.

Kirkland and Kov are apples and oranges. Kirkland doesn't have a FRACTION of Kov's talent. They're both crowd pleasing, just in different ways.

But yeah, I enjoy watching Kov more. Nothing like a devastating puncher who's ALSO a skilled offensive technician.

 

:atu:

Yeah ok, Ramonza... Bob Fitzsimmons wouldn't see the third round against Young Stribling... Guy was a caveman fighting when boxing was about as sophisticated as a Toughman contest

at least Archie Moore was a real fighter

 

Fitzsimmons was a big man. On that alone I would give him a good chance. Yes, he was a caveman. A big caveman.

Also......cavemen, as we know them, were neanderthals. There isn't a boxer in history that could have done a damn thing with most neanderthals. :nono: ::

Tom Sharkey weighed about 180 .....another guy I would venture could take that left hook of Fosters.

 

Yeah Kirkland probably has a Kovalev quilt, Kovalev teddy bear, Kovalev poster, Kovalev rug, etc.

 

"Civil War" Harold Yeatman would have given Kovalev everything he could handle.

 

I see where you're going and I partly agree, but saying Kovalev beats Calzaghe is hardly going overboard as plenty of question marks remains about Calzaghe despite his unbeaten record.

 

A lot of guys in the 165-180lb range would have been able to take his left hook......how well they did after that is unknown.

 

More question marks remain regarding Kovalev.

 

THE biggest question in Calz vs Kov is how Calz would react to Kov's power.

I think it's safe to say that if Calz couldn't stop glass chinned Charles Brewer, and the corpse of Jones, that he ain't stopping Kov.

Therefore, Joe would have to outwork/outbox Kov. But would he be able to do that while withstanding Kov's firepower?

That's the biggest question.

Calz had a good chin, but he was far from Hagler.

 

And? He's in the process of answering them, something Calzaghe was reluctant to do for most of his career. Given that, it's not surprising that people have some doubts about his worth as a fighter

Personnally, what I saw from Kovalev until now would make me pick him in a fight against Calzaghe at 175. After all, Calzaghe only fought 2 senior citizens at this weight. Calzaghe would certainly be a live underdog in my book though.

 

Those guys proved their durability against other guys who, like them, had no idea how to box... I'd happily wager any amount that there's no 170-180 pounder that fought between 1890-1915 that goes 15 with Bob Foster or even quite a few guys who were nowhere near as good as Foster ... Real Left hooks didn't even exist back then, never mind a left hook as great as Foster's

 

And both dropped Calz on his ass. Even winning on points would be difficult for Calz as he's probably have to reverse 2 or 3 10-8 rounds.

 

::

Danny "Swift" Garcia is not even as fast as Lucas himself, it's the most incongruous nickname ever.

Kovalev is a much better boxer than Lucas btw, and just a better fighter overall.

 

Yeah, Irish acts as if Kov would HAVE to knockout Calz to win.

As if Kov is a one punch at a time plodder like Lacy.

Kov is technically MORE skilled than Calz, and he can maintain a high workrate.

Calz usually could maintain a high workrate, but how high would it be considering what's coming back at him?

 

I can't imagine many fighters maintaining a high workrate against Kovalev, unless they are a 175 pound Duran, thats' exceptionally good at infighting, and could smother Kovalev.

Kovalev does have that weird, effortless power, where every shot is incredibly hard and thudding, even his jabs. You can see the opponent's expression change after getting hit by them.

 

Yeah and i don't even know if i've seen one of those cocky "you didn't hurt me" type smiles from an opponent yet. When they feel that power they know there is a cause for concern.

 

Joe would probably have to stick and move, but I don't know. Joe had a lot of pride. Whenever he got hit hard, he would fight back. And that's where I think he gets in trouble against Kovalev.

Also, Kovalev is exceptionally good at countering from angles and with Joe's tendency to square up when he punches, it's not hard to envision him getting put on his ass by Kov.

I think Joe has the tools to win, but I'm not so sure he'd be able to maintain for 12 rounds with that power coming at him.

 

Which is why a prime Qawi would beat Kovalev.

Slapping Hoe, was NOT Qawi.

 

there is evidence pascal is a better fighter at light heavyweight than he was at super middleweight. the evidence is his resume.

 

Only way to truly see the difference between the two would be to put Kov in with the only prime/quality fighter Joe ever beat........ Kessler.

We all know how much of a Kessler fan I always was. But Kov would have stopped the Dane. Probably before the late rounds, considering Kess wasn't a mover.

 

:flip: Id dont appreciate the condescending tone of this sentence in your post. WHAT exactly are you implying here, chief? Not many guys did

 

I suspect American trainers are because they want to live in and fight in America. These guys got good somewhere other than the US. It's not like Americans aren't as physically gifted. They just aren't as appropriately trained.