Lennox Lewis Slaps Tito Ortiz??

Ortiz can't take much of anything.:: He's garbage. He's not even a top 5 LH in today's division. Each performance gets worse and worse.

 

:bears::bears::bears:
End of story.

 

To add to mexican wedding's post, there is also Keith Jardine and Houston Alexander who are getting their work done primarily on punching alone. Although Jardine's been working more on his kicks lately. Houston's adopted his own style of 'prison boxing' to find success.:: The last 2 opponents Houston dusted up very quickly with some well placed bombs, Jardine being one of them.
But I think the UFC suits are pushing for fighters to be exciting. The crowd wants to see standup and those who do standup and give the crowd a show are the ones who seem to find a spot on ppvs.
Okami and Jake O' Brian for example are nowhere to be seen on live ppv due to their very boring grappling lay and pray styles of fighting. As Jason MacDonald said "They didn't want to put my fight with Okami on ppv because they said Okami was too boring."

 

Some points in this thread:

lb 4 lb: "Are you kidding? Isn't LL like twice Ortiz's size?"
dsimon3387: " If something like this were to go down? Lennox is so much bigger than Ortiz."

Well, he's not. Lewis is 6' 4 1/2" or 6' 5" according to tales of the tape and Ortiz is 6' 2". Lewis probably weighs 270 lbs. (guess). Ortiz probably weighs 230 lbs (also guess).

So no, size isn't going to be an excuse to back down. Personally, I think it's friggin ridiculous to think any world class fighter is going to back down because of a size difference, but in any case, it's not relevant here.
.............

steve_dave: " Not to mention [Lennox is] a better fighter and athlete [than Tito]."

Boxing isn't fighting. It's a part of fighting, but that's it.
MMA is fighting. It's not streetfighting, but it is fighting.

Lennox is a better athlete? Based on what exactly? I've seen him box and I've seen him play chess. You ever seen him do anything else? Oh, and btw, I haven't seen him box for 4 years, have you? Whatever he was, he's not now.
.......

royjonesjrp4pno1: "It makes sense. If hes scared of Chuck Liddells striking then he should be scared of Lennox."

Like he was afraid of Shamrock, right? You guys who think like this are just projecting. When you are wearing little (or no) gloves, you don't back down because of size when you're a fighter.

............

whiskey: "Quote from sherdog:

"Maybe Tito was worried he'd get booted from the show if he fought back."


:: :laughing: ::"

In my opinion, this is far more likely than Tito being afraid. (assuming it even happened).

...................

El Terible: "I hate LL......but he'd punch a hole through Tito's forehead....

Yeah, if Tito is petrified of Chuck's 'striking prowess'....he piss his pants vs LL"
Mexican Wedding Shirt: "My feelings exactly."

Tito just fought. The guy isn't afraid of getting hit. Cautious in the octagon? Of fucking course. He's fighting 220 lb guys who hit hard and aren't wearing big ass boxing gloves.

........

royjonesjrp4pno1: "Wow these UFC fanboys act like these guys are invincible. Like its totally out of the relm of possibility that a boxing HOF'er with a size advantage could do shit to an average MMA fighter like Ortiz."

Like your moniker, you are living in the past. Lennox hasn't fought in 4 years.

.................

Illuminati: " "In a street fight Tito Ortiz would kill Lewis" :: "

Of course he would. Lennox is old and there is zero proof that he can do anything but box. Actually, make that past tense.

Whatever chance Lennox would have would end at the first clinch. By the way, have you ever seen Lennox end a boxing match before a clinch did or could have occurred in a boxing match or start of a round? Nothing comes to mY mind.
........

Mexican Wedding Shirt: "They've probably never even seen Lewis fight.

It's threads like that, that should make us proud to be boxing fans and not MMA fans."

Well, I'll bet they haven't seen Lewis fight in the past 4 years, anyway.

It's threads like this that shouldn't make us proud to be boxing fans because of this blind allegiance to the sport instead of common sense and empirical evidence to the contrary.

...........................

Illuminati: " and they also seem to think that if the takedown is successful..that the boxer would not know what to do...:dunno: let me see he will keep throwing punches...:notallthere:..."

This really can't be written by anyone who is familiar with mma and what happens to a guy when he gets taken down who has no ground game (a la Lennox)

...................

steve_dave: "It's funny that anyone is trying to argue that Tito Ortiz could beat up Lennox Lewis."

It's pathetic that people think the opposite.

.....................

Father of Musze: "If Lemmon got in the first punch, the fight's pretty much over at that point."

Maybe. Boxers fight with big gloves on and the dynamics of punching with bare fists is different. You still have to land in the right place. Like I said above, I can't think of any time where Lennox knocked out someone with the first punch of a fight or a round.

Could Lennox of 4 years ago land in the right place? He'd certainly have a lot better chance than he would now.

...........

Arben: " We'll see how Tito looks when he's on the floor staring up at the former Heavyweight Champion of the world."

This would be one of the very worst places for Lennox to be. Unless he's doing everything he can to stand up and get away, he's going to be seconds away from getting triangled or arm barred.

....................

Mexican Wedding Shirt: "The thing that makes me laugh is these IDIOTS, like the sherdog losers and even mIKE on here thinking MMA fighters are invincible and would take a boxer 10.5 times out of 10 - look at MMA."

MMA fighters aren't invincible. It's way to easy to lose when you have little (or no) gloves. But Lennox is from a different sport. And he's in his 40's. And he hasn't fought in 4 years. His only chance is knocking out Ortiz before they get into a clinch or Ortiz goes for a takedown. Whatever the odds of this happening are, they are remote. And by remote, I mean way less than 10%.

...................

Rabid Kimba: " Yes but it's a PROVEN FACT that Ortiz can't take a decent punch either.

opcorn:"

Not going to disagree. But with little mma (or no) gloves, there really aren't any humans that can take hard punches like you can in boxing. And it's not like Lennox was a granite chinned guy. But no, I don't think Ortiz is landing on Lennox (even this old version). If he fought that way, he'd deserve whatever he got. But it's crazy to think he'd fight that way. Only slightly less crazy than thinking he'd be afraid.

...............

Arben: " Have you ever watched sparring? Almost all they do is load up on punches.

<!-- / message --><!-- controls --> Stop underestimating movement. "

I have no idea what the last sentence means?

And I can't figure out if you are being serious in the first two sentences or trying to be funny or basing your opinion on the outliers like 'Philly gym' clones?

You really think boxers like Lennox took heavy shots in every sparring round? wow.

 

dsimon writes:

No I am saying a boxer and a street fighter are very different. I am saying that MMA guys dealing with a puncher has changed a lot since the sport has gown in popularity. I am saying that this makes the comparison between a boxer and MMA guy that much more difficult to make.

 

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

 

I agree that it's changed a lot, but the changes don't apply when you are talking about an untrained-to-counter-a-grappler puncher like Lennox. Lennox is either getting 'lucky' fast or he's going to end up on his back flapping around like a fish.

Punchers have learned how to keep fights on the feet and referees now put guys on their feet instead of letting them bore everyone on the ground while they do very little. Neither of these two things would help Lennox.

 

dsimon writes:

I am talking about before MMA. They... Rorian especially fought some hard punchers, there are tapes of the bouts. Some of the fights included fairly decent Kick boxers, thai boxers, etc.

The Gracies strength was imo never fighting in a ring, but their ability to neutralize a striker, even a much bigger and powerful striker. When they went into the MMA stuff they Forsook a lot of their strong suite.

Why do boards have to be so fucking polarized on issues like this? The truth is nobody knows what a fight between a comprably trained MMA guy and a champion boxer would look like because we don't have one on tape to tell us what it would look like. So all the MMA and all the boxing nuthuggers are both speculating.

 

The Gracie fought a lot in the ring later on, but for the other part of your post, I agree.

 

dsimon writes:

Your point about the gloves and how this affects punching is absolutely true. I disagree about MMA being real fighting compared to boxing.... it is closer to real fighting but there are major differences.

You point about neutralizing a punch is also relevant. I get the sense that people who box don't always fully undersand that there are things that can be done to neutralize a punch.

All in all if you do the training you learn things about what makes a grappler truly dangerous, and what makes a puncher truly dangerous but you also learn about weaknesses...and there are weaknesses in all approaches.

 

dsimon writes:

Right, and I mean specifically before they became preoccupied with setting up the MMA stuff. A lot changed in their system when they had the need to dominate the sport they created. The older stuff is much more Ju Juitsu oriented, does not look pretty at all, but was great at neutralizing a striker. The problem is that people wanted stand up to be prominant because it is exciting. The Gracies originally trained to beat a stand up guy not to use stand up techniques.... and as the sport developed the Gracies found themselves needing to learn stand up to win in the ring.

What people don't realize is that you don't win a sporting contest by neutralizing an opponent exclusively. The weakness in the Gracie's system was that the whole orientation of the system had to change because of this fact. The orthodox Gracke method was such that the opponent was stopped and when they made a mistake they were submitted. The Gracie fighter did nothing but position himself so he was safe and wait for the miastake to be made.

 

dsimon writes:

In a street fight that one lucky punch that lands first is very important. Remember that Lennox and Tito would not be coming out of their respective corners feelign each other out, they would initially both be trying to land a fast hard one, probably to the head.

But yeah when they came to grips you make a good point. How about Rahman versus Tito? ::

 

In a street fight, anything goes. In boxing and mma, not anything goes. Don't ever underestimate the skills, speed, accuracy and power of a world class champion boxer.:nono:
Tito Ortiz is a smart man. Would he be naive enough to want to risk his health and reputation on the street against a world class fighter, regardless of discipline?
Don't let his fights inside the octagon fool you. The street is an entirely different world altogether and things don't play out the way they do inside the octagon under strict mma rules.
On the street, it's anybody's game. And Lewis would have much more than just 'luck' against Ortiz or any other mma fighter. You're clearly seeing today just how devastating many mma fighters are becoming with basic hands and some power. Why underestimate a top level boxer like Lewis?
Have you ever understood how a boxer uses range? Footwork? Using the jab to create distance and then coming through with a left or right?
You don't brush off a world class boxer's chances that quickly, especially when your opponent has china inside his chin and the stand up skills of a toughman reject like Tito Ortiz.

 

Best point of the thread.. MMA skills mean squat if you let Lennox tag you on the chin first with that right hand..

That being said, what a cheap publicity stunt..

 

You thought he looked unskilled with his feet up when someone was going to attack him? Please tell me how you look different when you are MMA and ready to kick when they come in Just admit you didn't watch it and your original reply how Rahamn wrestled him down easy was well......bull:shit:

 

Mike, you obviously haven't seen sparring, so your point about that is a waste.

But I ask you in response to this comment...

What evidence exactly?

 

If I'm not mistaken, mikE sparred with Cory Spinks not too long ago.

 

What a waste of 8 pages of cyberspace.

Sounds like the arguments I had in kindergarten..."Lennox can beat Tito!" "Cannot!" "Can too!" "CANNOT!" My daddy is bigger than your daddy....

Neither MMA nor boxing are the end-all-be-all when it comes to fighting in the street with no gloves and no rules.

We don't know WHAT would happen, period.

Both guys are trained to fight certain ways, and likely whoever does their thing first will have an ADVANTAGE (still doesn't mean they'd "win", whatever that means in a streetfight).

They probably didn't even really have an altercation...and here we are furiously arguing about who would win and why boxing is better than MMA and vice-versa.

:laughing: :laughing:

 

I wont name names but I have sparred with world class boxers and MMA guys... not that that matter much.. but..

I agree with Mike, Lemmon would either land a shot or be on his back. He simply does not know how to defend a takedown

I worked with MMA guys and I am mainly a boxer style... one thing I did learn is defending the takedown. I think if you can defend it AND punch you have a great shot..

Lemmon is not a fighter he is or *was* a boxer and not a real aggressive one at that.. he would get tapped out by Tito IMO

believe it or not I think Bernard hopkins would have a better shot than Lemmon

 

:: Quite true. Who would win on the street? Whoever struck first and most brutally! Simple as that. Whoever picked up the bottle and smashed it over the others head. Whoever went to shake the other guys hand then cheap shotted him with the other. Whoever stuck his keys between his fingers and started striking at the others eyes with them. Real life isn't glamourus. (Example: the most feared man on the streets of Glasgow in the 80s was a guy called Paul Ferris. He came up working as muscle for Arthur Thompson, settling debts & keeping Thompson's men in line. Guy was about 140lb of flab and bespectacled dweebyness. Psychosis and brutality rules on the streets not fighting ability)

*That being said my two cents: In a fair one on one fight Tito would probably win, IMO. 7/10 or so. However Lennox has by far the better TOOLS for the street because A) he can end things in an instance and without warning B) rolling around on the ground looking for a rear naked choke or some shit in a street environment is the height of fucking idiocy.:shit:

 

we are? ::

 

Yeah, I know a guy who was always getting in fights and usually kicking the crap out of people.

One time a guy got him in a choke hold and my friend reached up and ripped the guys ear off.:eeeek:

 

I haven't responded to how Rahman took him down because I agree it isn't important. I don't know what the fuck you're talking about with 'ready to kick when they come in'?

Lennox had no clue on the ground. That was obvious. Why would he?
Was he on his back against Tyson, too?

 

Jesus christ!:eeeek: I think that illustrates the point.

 

I know! It's like arguing over who would win if Popeye and Superman had a fight.::

 

Exactly. It's the harmless-looking, silent, inexpressive ones you have to beware of.

I speak from experience.

LOL at your last paragraph. ::

 

::

 

Popeye by KO

 

Didn't you ever watch Lewis/Golota, Lewis/Ruddock and Lewis/Grant to name a few?:laughing:

 

Don't be ridiculous! A spinach-free Popeye can't even beat a non-spinach-eating Bluto. How the hell's he going to last even a second against the man of steel?