Lesnar vs Couture PPV buys??

Affliction ridiculously overpaid their fighters for their first card, and took a beating financially. Chances are very good that by this time next year, they'll be a memory. Even their 'partnership' with Golden Boy is a crock, since Golden Boy scheduled Mosley\Margarito for the same night as Affliction 2.

You can't compare boxing payouts to MMA payouts, as they're two different sports. That's like saying Jason Giambi was maybe the 13th best 1st Baseman in baseball last year, and he made $17 Million dollars. Did the 13th best Welterweight make $17 Million dollars last year? If not, he's getting ripped off.

You have WWE wrestlers that wrestle on PPV a dozen times a year, on live TV every week, and on house shows 4 nights a week 50 weeks out of the year, and they're lucky if they're making 6 figures.

Look at the money the NFL makes. The Superbowl alone generates hundreds of millions of dollars. But the players get about $75,000 in bonus if they win, and about half of that if they lose. Is that fair? No way, the NFL is ripping off their players!

UFC fighters get paid better than market value for an MMA fighter. There may be oddball shows here and there that pay better, but those organizations are not going to be around very long.

Personally, for the overall good of the sport, I think boxing overpaying their fighters is a much worse thing that MMA 'underpaying' their fighters.


TFK

 

If they fight, they get paid. That's the bottom line. A lot of other groups, Dream most notably, can't say the same thing.

And so what if they can get terminated if they lose a fight? It's just like any other job. Don't do your job well, and you'll find yourself out of a job.

TFK

 

Nobody forced any of those fighters to sign with the UFC. If you sign a contract for a set amount of money, and than you get paid that amount of money, what's the problem?

If they think they're worth more, than they better learn to negotiate better.

TFK

 

I've been watching UFC since day 1. Had a cable descrambler and got all the PPV's for free. So I'm far from some 'noob'.

And UFC fighters are making a lot more now than they were even just a few years ago.

TFK

 

The top guys make much more than what is told to the public. Randy Couture's numbers were made public because of his lawsuit with Zuffa, so let's look at them. When he fought Sylvia, he was paid $250,000 for the fight, but earned just under a million more from PPV revenue bonus.

When he fought Gonzaga, he was paid $250,000, earned another $35,000 for 'Fight of the Night', and was paid about a quarter of a million in PPV revenue bonus.

So Couture made more then $1 Million for each of those fights. And I'm sure both he and Lesnar will make more than a Million for their fight.

TFK

 

Your Baseball Analogy is OVERUSED, Dude...Boxing & MMA R More SIMILAR than DISsimilar, whether U Care to Admit that or Not...FAIR "Market Value" for an MMAist Falls Under the COMBAT SPORTS Umbrella, which INCLUDES Boxing...

& your WWE & NFL Comparisons R FAULTY, because ELITE WWE or NFL Guys DO Get Paid WELL...They EACH Get Paid MUCH MORE than ANY UFC Guy...Stone Cold Steve Austin, the Rock, Goldberg, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Randy Moss,etc...ALL of those Guys Make SIGNIFICANTLY MORE than a UFC Guy, so your Comparison DOESN'T Apply...Besides that, the NFL has a PLAYERS UNION & they Get their Fair Share via REVENUE SHARING, which is Part of their Collective Bargaining Agreement...

REED is Speaking SPECIFICALLY about the UFC, which U Seem RELUCTANT to Do..They Could EASILY Afford to Pay their Main Event OPPONENTS the Same $800,000 that Tim Sylvia Made as a Main Event OPPONENT, Don't U Think???...

What's FAIR about Sylvia Making MORE than Lesnar & Couture COMBINED, when the Lesnar-Couture PPV SOLD More, ADVERTISED More, had a LARGER LIVE GATE, etc.???...What's FAIR about that, TFK:dunno:...

U're Certainly ENTITLED to your Opinion, but if REED didn't Know Better, he's SWEAR that YOU were a UFC EXECUTIVE Yourself::...

Keep this N Mind...NOBODY Watches T.U.F. to See Dana White...NOBODY Watches UFC Countdown Shows Because they're Produced by Zuffa...NOBODY Buys UFC Merchandise w/Executives N Mind & NOBODY Buys Tickets to UFC Events to See Suits Waging War N an Octagon...

The Fighters R "The PRODUCT" & Should B Paid Accordingly...



REED:hammert:

 

Like I said in the previous post, the top guys are making money. Couture cleared more than a Million for his fights against Sylvia and Gonzaga, and I'm sure both he and Lesnar made more than a million each for their fight.

TFK

 

O.K.

So what about Anderson Silva???...GSP???...BJ???...Forest Griffin???...U Know, the OTHER Elite Fighters???...


REED:dunno:

 

Agreed. Without the fighters, there is no UFC. Without the UFC, there will still be fighters....just in slightly lesser/smaller organizations.
The sport is still young and the UFC will definitely see real competition in due time. The right guy will come along, a guy who will know what he's doing as opposed to making a quick buck and he'll create another avenue for fighters to compete. Hence, the bargaining power of the fighters will increase rather than signing away all their rights with these shoddy contracts.
Did you know Jon Fitch got fired and rehired in a span of 2 days when he refused to whore himself out to Dana's demands?

 

You aren't telling me anything that I don't already know. That is why I said they should be making that money BEFORE bonus's. Who gives a shit if they made a little over 1 million after bonus's. That's not exactly great money. You can say what you want but anyone who has a choice between the 2 sports who can do both well will pick boxing over MMA every day of the week. Why? Because if you are elite you get paid like you are elite.

 

[1] Bullshit you can't. The dynamics of the two sports are extremely similar in almost every way.

[2] Baseball is not similar in almost every way so the analogy is very flawed. I'd say it's nonsense.

[3] Wrestlers are not athletes in the same sense fighters are. They are only athletic performance artists. And are replaceable in ways that the best fighters are not.

[4] Bullshit. UFC works on a monopolistic model. If you want to hide behind market value when people mean fair market value, then you aren't being genuine. No fucking way in the universe is paying out 5% of the take and keeping 90% of it fair or indicative of 'market value' in the sense of the term that is most applicable.

[5] Boxing doesn't overpay its fighters. UFC's self-serving business model may not hurt mma since fighters don't have enough options and its fans are generally savvy enough to know better, it seems. But this business model is destined to be modified and hopefully karma bitchslaps the greedy fucks that are UFC in the end.

Edit: I see REED and others already went over this ground...mY bad

 

Sad but true

 

That's a damn shame.Fitch is a top class fighter.

EDIT:Fitch is a top five welterweight,he should not get his pay cut because he lost to the champ in a valiant effort..it seems like the UFC is getting worse IMO

 

I'm sure they're all making good money. I just used Couture's numbers because they were made public. The fighter's you mentioned, their numbers haven't been made public, but I'm sure the UFC is taking good care of them.

TFK

 

Fitch getting cut had nothing to do with any pay cut. It was a disagreement about a liscensing deal.

TFK

 

What difference does it make if they make a million before bonus or after it? They're still getting paid a million bucks. That's just arguing semantics.

Another thing being missed in all of this, is how long has the UFC been turning a profit? They were heavily in debt when Zuffa bought it.

Their business model is a wise one. They are making money. They are turning a profit, and they are keeping salaries in check. Interest in MMA is at an all time high right now, but that can change at any minute.

What happens if the UFC starts paying their fighters 8-9 million per fight? Then let's say interest drops off in the UFC, which is entirely possible. When the cash stops coming in, do you think the fighters are going to accept lower payoffs? Highly unlikely, because once the bar is set, it's hard to lower it.

So that will lead to fights not being made because of money, crappy undercards with fighters nobody cares about or has heard of, and less and less good fights on free TV. That would make MMA just like...you guessed it...boxing.

Not to mention that payoffs that high would literally cripple any smaller organizations, which are already struggling, and ensure that no other major MMA group ever gets off the ground.

The bottom line is, the UFC pays better than fair market value for MMA fighters. They have a strong business plan that is working well for them. And the fighters are signing these contracts willingly, so they obviously don't have a problem with what the UFC pays. And for every fighter that wants out of the UFC, there are probably several dozen that would kill to take their spot.

TFK

 

Good job in showing that like I said you can't see a middle ground. You simply don't seem to get it. 8 or 9 million? 90% of these guys don't even make 6 digits a fight. :notallthere:Top to bottom the fighters are underpaid. Anyone who knows anything about simple numbers can figure that out. A company net's 15- 25 million or so and pays out less than 2 million in slalaries.......:notallthere:

No, it's not "semantics". The main eventers should make 1 million BEFORE bonus's plus bonus's added on later. Yeah that's not semantics, that's just how it is. The fact is the UFC tries to hide it's numbers because they are fucking ridiculous when it comes to paying fighters. What are you talking about fair market value? LOL. The UFC is suppoed to be the Super Bowl of MMA right? So going by that they should be paying MUCH more than others.

In your opinion boxing is crappy now but you aren't even a real boxing fan, You can't really judge the sport. You don't know what a good card is because your knowledge is well, limited.

 

you guys could have just said no

 

I wasn't joking in post #13.

 

Keith Jardine got 10K for the main event against Liddell. The pay scale should definitely be higher.

 

i know and i agree with you. but there are numbers out there... the article in this post lists the PPV numbers for Lesnar-Cotoure as well as another cotoure fight and i know they have listed the ortiz numbers... its just a matter of writing the numbers down.

guess no one here has kept track... guess i will have to start now.

 

Take away the elite boxers, and what kind of money are boxers making? I've looked for numbers on the undercard fighters on numerous boxing PPV's, but have never been able to find them. Why are they hiding these numbers?

I would doubt the undercard fighters are making much more than undercard fighters in the UFC. I could be wrong, but I haven't seen any numbers to prove it either way.

And yes, it is semantics. A million dollar payoff is a million dollar payoff, no matter how you want spin it.

And as far as being a boxing fan, time was, I was the biggest boxing fan out there. Never missed a big fight on PPV, HBO or Showtime, watched TNF every week, caught Saturday Afternoon boxing when it was on, subsribed to the magazines, went to the fights a lot, whether it was watching fighters like Holyfield, Bowe and Lewis at MSG, or watching the club fights at the old Ukranian Center in Somerset where future IBF Cruiserweight Champ Imamu Mayfield cut his teeth.

But my interest in the sport waned as boxing lost it's way. Don't give me that shit that I can't judge and I don't know a good card, because I saw plenty of good cards in years past. But as fights that 10 years ago would barely be good enough to headline TNF started ending up on PPV, when good undercard fights started disappearing, as the sport stopped developing new stars, as the price of PPV's skyrocketed as the quality of fights plummeted, I started to lose interest.

And as a result, I'm still a boxing fan, but I'm just not a hardcore fan anymore. And a lot of people I know who were big fans like me feel the same way.

And that's a shame, but boxing has done it to itself.

TFK

 

Why would you take away elite boxers? That completely and utterly would be missing the point wouldn't it?:atu:

You really don't seem to get this. Are you slow? Getting 1 million dollars on PPV bonus's and salary COMBINED is not the same as getting a 1 million dollar salary plus a PPV upside. Sorry, it's just not the same thing no matter how you look at it.

As far as being a boxing fan, you aren't. Period. I don't care what you were but the fact is you come onto a boxing board to bash boxing the majority of the time which is humorous to say the least. You can talk about PPV's all you want but that is a cop out. There's been boxing on channels such as telefutura,telemundo,HBO,Showtime and ESPN. Last time I checked these aren't events you have to buy. Not to mention all the stuff you can see online in stuff that happens in other ocuntries. You don't care about that stuff and that is fine, but don't pretend to be something you aren't.

 

Yeah what a tard... a million dollar before taxes or after - ahh stop with that semantics... ::

 

If anyone here is slow, it's you. Like it or not, you're crying over semantics. They are getting million dollar payoffs. Any way you spin it, they are getting million dollar payoffs.

Payouts in the UFC are different than they are in boxing. In the UFC, the fighters are signed to contracts with a set amount of money per fight. That is where the numbers you see come from, and that is what is paid to the fighters whether they're main eventing, or jerking the curtain in the opening bout. But if they're main eventing, in title fights, fighting higher up in the card, they get paid more in addition to their base. But at the end of the day, any way you spin it, Couture made a million+ in his fights.

And you can claim I'm not a boxing fan all you want, that doesn't bother me in the least, but even you can't believe that the quality of fights on free TV is anywhere near the quality they were even just 10 years ago. Hell, we have heavyweight title fights that aren't even televised in this country. That would've been unheard of years ago.

And the funniest part is you crying, saying I spend the majority of my time here bashing boxing (not true) when you're the jackass in the MMA forum crying about MMA!

Yeah, someone is slow here, and it sure as hell ain't me.

TFK

 

TFK - it's just semantics?

So if you asked an mma fighter - "Would you rather receive 1 million including the win bonus and including a share of PPV, or would you rather receive a 1 million purse PLUS a cut of the PPV revenue?"

Do you think they would say...

"Oh, whatever, either is fine, it's just semantics"

::::

 

A typical crap post from you. A lot of words and very little substance. Once again, a guy getting 1 million plus upside is not the same as getting a salary and bonus that combine to make 1 million. It's not semantics, it's common sense. You really are slow.

Yes, I will continue to say you aren't a boxing fan. Like I said, there's all kinds of FREE boxing on the internet and several channels. Actually much more than there is MMA, it's not even close. Yet someone like you would rather cry and complain about boxing with shit that's not even true. :atu:

Lastly, I am not bashing MMA as a whole, I am bashing the UFC pay structure. Ummmm, that doesn't exactly put me in the minority, EVERYONE knows they are getting ripped off. Well except for you apparently. :: When you are netting 15-25 million for PPV's, paying less than 2 million to the fighters as a whole just isn't cutting it. These guys are supposed to be in the top MMA organization, they should be getting paid like it. In fact I find it fucking pathetic that anyone would argue otherwise.

 

It's clear you don't understand the payout structure in the UFC, so I won't waste anymore of my time trying to explain it to you.

And like I said numerous times, the UFC pays their fighters better than fair market value for MMA fighters. What boxers make, what football players make, what professional wrestlers make, none of that matters. They are different sports. One has no impact on the other.

If fighters are voluntarily signing these contracts, then nobody is getting ripped off. It's that simple.


TFK

 

Actually I think it's you who doesn't understand the pay structure. And what's more clear than anything is that you're a pathetic MMA apologist.

As val was trying to point out - 1 million all in, and 1 million plus PPV revenue are not the same thing ::

One is more than the other, it's really, really simple.

Plus, you keep banging on about market value, but the point is, their market value is shit, and that's fucked up, they are fighters, they deserve more money, simple as that.

You get good fighters in the UFC, putting their lives on the line, and they don't even receive enough money to cover medical expenses. You think that's fair enough?

Market value or no market value, Pride paid their fighters better than the UFC does. UFC are cunts basically.

25 mil on PPV revenue, and 2 million total payout to the essence of the product. You don't see that is being wrong? ::

 

fixed