Lesnar vs Couture PPV buys??

Again, you guys are not understanding how UFC contracts work. The fighters get a base salary per fight, and bonus pay based on where the fight is in the card. And that is smart money. Just look at Cro-Cop. He had an opportunity to make millions, but he couldn't capitalize on it.

It's a great thing that the UFC makes the fighters earn their money.

Also, Pride is out of business, so pointing toward their business model while trying to make a point isn't the wisest thing to do.

Third, the MMA business is a tough one. Look at how many groups have gone out of business in the past few years? Hell, EliteXC had national coverage, and they lost 10's of millions. There's a reason why the UFC is succesful, and that's because they are smart businessmen who understand the business much better than people on messageboards who are crying about salaries.

Like it or not, the UFC's business plan is a smart one. It's working, and it's the only major MMA group that can say that.

I look at it this way, I don't know who here follows, or used to follow professional wrestling, but about 10 years ago, it was on top of the world. WWE and WCW were both drawing ratings in the 5's and higher going head to head against each other on Monday nights. They, along with ECW were drawing record crowds at house shows across the country, and between te 3 groups were putting out somewhere around 30 PPV's a year.

Business was booming, and WCW starting spending money. They were handing out guaranteed contracts, paying much more then the WWE. Wrestlers in WCW were making more money then ever before. Then a funny thing happened. The wrestling bubble burst.

Ratings plummeted. PPV sales went down the toilet. Fans stopped showing up. The money wasn't coming in like it was previously. And before you know it, WCW was millions in debt, and soon after, out of business. The company that was making hundreds of millions of dollars was sold to the WWE for just over $4 million dollars.

There's a lesson to be learned there, and the UFC understands. It wasn't long ago the UFC was deep in debt. The economy around the world is in the toilet. Business can go south in a heartbeat.

Trust me, the UFC isn't trying to 'rip off' any of their fighters. They're trying to build, and sustain, a succesful MMA company, and they're going about it the right way.

And until the market dictates that MMA fighters make 2-3 million a fight, they'll continue to make what they make.

And the MMA 'fans' who hate the UFC need to realize, if the UFC did just decide to arbitrarily raise their payroll to the numbers people are talking about, that will crush the rest of the struggling MMA groups out there, and ensure that no new groups could ever prosper.

There's so much more involved than 'they're just ripping off their fighters', but I guess you guys are much better businessmen than White and the Fertitta's, so you guys must know it all.

TFK

 

Actually Pride went down because of Yakuza ties, not because they were paying fighters too much. There is nothing wrong with referencing pride, Pride rocked.

And actually, the win bonus thing is not something I object to. But then again, does it really work? Does it really discourage fighters from laying and praying, or fighting not to lose?

I mean, in boxing they want to win too, because they know, if they win, and hold onto their title or whatever, more big paydays are coming up.

They don't need an immediate win bonus to have an incentive to win, that's obvious.

And I think what you're failing to grasp TFK, is that win bonus or not, they are still underpaid.

And their purse with the win bonus, is still going to be less than that same purse, plus PPV revenue ::

And with the win bonus, they still earn significantly less than the equivalent talent in boxing.

Guys like Jardine fighting for what, 10 grand plus 10 grand win bonus? 20 fucking grand? Would that cover his training camp, plus any possible medical expenses etc?

And in boxing, if the total revenue is 25 million, you can be sure the fighters on the card would receive much more than 2 million between them. Why can't the UFC do the same thing?

Personally I don't think they should receive as much as boxers. It's a newer sport, the fighters are generally not as good, not as experienced, and the fights are shorter.

BUT they are still pro fighters, they should receive a LOT more than they do, even if not as much as boxers.

 

That's because boxing and MMA are two different sports. You can't compare MMA to boxing the same way you can't compare it to baseball, golf or karate. It has a completely different pay structure.

Should MMA fighters start paying sanctioning fees too?

That's the contract he signed coming out of TUF, and he was happy to get it. And you can be sure he's making more than 10 to show and 10 to win, especially when he fought Liddell and Wandy.

Because boxing and the UFC are not the same. They are run totally different. The UFC is a company, 'boxing' on it's own is not. And like I said, the UFC is trying to build and sustain a succesful company. When so many groups are bleeding money, should the UFC raise their expenses when legions of fighters are happy to make what they're paying already?

What hasn't been touched on here, is the UFC has been gradually increasing their pay. Fighters are making more now than they were 2 years ago, and more than 5 years ago. They are taking care of their fighters.

TFK

 

Well that's the point. They are clearly not taking care of their fighters.

When some decent up and coming fighters don't even get paid enough to cover their training and medical expenses, how are they taking care of their fighters?

The UFC is not longer losing money, they are turning over a fairly large profit, so yes they can afford to pay their fighters more than they are, more than 2 million out of a 25 million pot.

 

If the UFC isn't taking care of their fighters, why do 99% of MMA fighters want to fight for the UFC? Why has every fighter under contract to them willingly signed their contract?

TFK

 

Because they've created a monopoly in a developing sport, that's why. Pretty obvious.

Basically, I think the attitude of I, Val and others is that MMA fighters DESERVE more money. Fuck market value, these guys get in the ring and risk their arses, often for fuck all, a purse that actually renders them at a loss after the fight.

They SHOULD get more money, it's as simple that.

Although - as you know - I prefer boxing to MMA, I like MMA, and I respect the fighters. They are proper fighters, and they deserve to get paid like it, especially the up and comers.

It seems like you actually prefer the UFC as an organisation to the actual MMA fighters. You don't really seem to give a fuck about the fighters, it seems your admiration rests soley with the grand business acumen of the UFC honchos :notallthere:

 

You're upset at the UFC's monopoly', but UFC raising their payscale in the ways people are suggesting would crush the chances of any rival MMA group ever succeeding, because they wouldn't be able to compete with the UFC.

Is that what you guys want?

Like I said, it's all about business and the long term. To use the WCW example is pointed out earlier, in the short term, those huge contracts were great for the wrestlers, but in the long term, they were disasterous.

The UFC needs to keep following the blueprint they've set up. And as time moves on, the payscale will continue to rise, as it has been over the past few years. You need to give things time to evolve.

TFK

 

You are naive to think that the UFC would raise the payscale unless they were forced to.

 

They have been raising the payscale.

TFK