Baseball is not an actual sport but guys are bigger there also. Just think about it: if it was possible for 185lbs midgets to compete at heavyweight these days by just having more stamina than the real heavyweights, wouldn't you assume that at least someone would do it?
Tyson would hammer the shit out of Marciano. Bags of heart or not, Marciano would be dispatched in 4 rounds. Can you imagine the smaller, weaker, no defense, slower marciano coming forward throwing punches against tyson? Doing the only thing he knows how? It would be brutal, it would be a pinklon thomas style beatdown, except being as small as marciano was, I am not even sure he could take as many flush shots as pinklon did. Anyone who seriously thinks marciano woudl win has either never seen marciano fight, forgot how good prime tyson was, loves marciano, or hates tyson with a passion.
dsimon writes: Ugo it has nothing to do with stamina per se. It has to do with the wider range of techniqes, strategies, fighting distances, etc that figure into combatives when they are less removed from reality. There are a lot of things that fighters do that cannot be seen on a tv set. That is the point that people that don't have some entree to a fighting art don't seem to get. Floyd looks a lot like Spinks but his distancing, footwork, counter attacks are ona totally different order (for example). I will throw your question back at you the following way. If every fighter could be dr Strange Love's Corey Spinks 24 hour trained taibo king why don't more guys learn how to throw a jab and a few combos and get in the ring with size and strength?
In roughly the same amount of fights , Bottom line is that Tyson lost to Kevin McBride , Danny Williams , Buster Douglas ... Not to mention he lost two fights to Holyfield and one to Lewis ... So really Tyson lost to every elite fighter he ever faced barring a fat old Holmes and former 175lb Spinks ... He is also a known quitter ... Marciano on the other hand defeated every fighter put in front of him and retired still champion of the world ... This does not say that Marciano could beat Tyson , However it does say that Marciano DESERVES and should always get a higher spot on ANY top heavyweight list ..... Though I would never bet on it and would never defend or agree with any statement saying Marciano could beat Tyson , the thought of Marciano defeating Tyson is not unthinkable like many like to believe ...
I love that whole bullsh*t about 'Only Ali had a chance against a prime focused 86-88 Tyson." F*cking joke Buster Douglas whipped his overrated ass, jabbed the sh*t out of him and knocked his ass out in his prime. Hell, George Foreman and Holyfield would've bust his ass up too. Tyson was an intimidator, dude looked ordinary as sh*t when he couldn't scare the hell out of an opponent. Best opponent on his record was a semi-retired rusty saggy 37 year old Holmes.
I love the entire Tyson was so skilled crap and the only thing Rocky had was heart. :: Well consider boxing has to be close to 90% heart, 10% skill. If Tyson would of had the heart Rocky did, what would his career of looked like? Now if Rocky would of had the heart Tyson had what would his career had looked like?
Tyson KO 4 Too big, too strong, too fast, too powerful, too much chin. Sure....Marciano has better stamina and heart, but those two factors are irrelevant when so come forward bangers meet face to face in such a potentially FIERCE firefight. It simply wont go far enough for those two things to matter. The man with the bigger, badder guns wins. Simple and plain.
Who came back FOUR years later to defeat an undefeated Ray Mercer and go the distance with PRIME Evander Holyfield. TO this day, Tyson is the only one to have Stopped Holmes! Tyson is underrated nowadays...but when the man was in his prime he was as talented as any heavyweight in history.
Jimmy "seven teeth" Wicksburg would beat the shit out of both of these guys. He's #3 all-time at 118.
boxing is in no way shape or form 90% heart. 95% skill 5% heart. every top tier guy has a similar skill set which is why heart comes into play. if it was 90% will, bar room brawlers would be able to come in a give boxers good fights.
You say it's the dumbest post of the year and yet you give no reason at all so I can only take this as you don't think BOXING requires more heart than skills and you are WRONG! Many of the best trainers of all time were asked what they would rather have, a fighter with heart or a fighter with skill, guess what? They chose heart. If you have a fighter with heart but not much skill, you have a good fighter, if you have a fighter with skill and heart you have a great fighter, if you have a skilled fighter with no heart you don't have shit. If skill means as much as you think it does where is Tyson? And if Tyson is indeed the most skilled heavyweight of all time then how could Buster Douglas humiliate him so easily?
'Nother Good Post... Bottom Line,Marciano was Great FOR HIS ERA...A PRIME Mike Tyson is a TERRIBLE Matchup for Marciano... REED has NO Problem w/Marciano Being Ranked AHEAD of Tyson on the All-Time Lists,but NO Way does he BEAT Tyson Head-to-Head... As Tyson HIMSELF would say,"That's Totatally Ludicrisp" REED:nono:
If Heart was Worth even HALF as Much as U're Saying,Guys like Gatti,Ward,Saad Muhammad & Many Others(who Lost COUNTLESS #'s of Times)would B UNdefeated... Would ANYBODY Argue that Zab Judah & Floyd Mayweather have MORE Heart than Mickey Ward or Arturo Gatti???...No... Yet,Judah & Mayweather EASILY Defeated Ward & Gatti...SUPERIOR Technique,SUPERIOR SKILL... Just as SIZE Can Eventually OVERCOME Skill,or just like HEART can Eventually OVERCOME Skill,the INVERSE of this is ALSO True... This ISN'T Baseball where Good PITCHING Always Beats Good HITTING...N Boxing,Heart DOES NOT Always Win:nono: ... Sorry... REED
If Marciano survived the first four rounds, he'd beat Tyson, either by outworking him or knocking him out. It's debatable as to which man hit harder - there are psi tests that suggest Marciano did, for what they're worth - but Marciano threw much more punches, and didn't slow down after 4 rounds.
agREED... If Marciano Gets Past Round 4,even REED would Give him a 50/50 Chance of BEATING Tyson...But that would B 4 Rounds of Complete HELL that he'd have to Make it Thru... As for Who HITS Harder??...If Tyson Wore those BARELY PADDED Gloves of Marciano's Era,Give REED Tyson...If Marcianio Wore the Significantly MORE PADDED Gloves of Today,Give REED Tyson... REED
yes, many of them are tougher than fighters who would easily smash them in a boxing ring. i box and train in brazilian jiu jitsu at least 3 times a week and can tell u heart means very little unless the skill set is near even. u can throw me in with floyd mayweather and tell me if i lose my family will be murdered and he can not care and still kick my ass even though i have 2352354 times the heart.
How did Buster beat Tyson? How did Evander beat Tyson? How did Fulmer beat SRR? etc. etc. etc. I can't help your frame of mind on your imaginery ass whooping to Floyd, but I'd be willing to bet not many thought a skill less bum like Fulmer could beat the P4P all time greatest fighter and yet he did. Personally I don't care how much skill a person has if he doesn't have the heart to go with it. Like I said, if a fighter has both, he's a rare great fighter if a skilled fighter has no heart, he's worthless.
Easy. If you neutralize Tyson's left hook and right uppercut, he's vulnerable. Douglas outjabbed Tyson on the outside, landed the right, and simply stepped away from Tyson's bigger shots. Easy. If you neutralize Tyson's left hook and right upppercut, he's vulnerable. Holyfield threw straight shots on the outside, and on the inside, clutched and led with his head. Tyson was helpless. Easy. He outworked him. Robinson was far past his prime, and unable to throw as many punches as he did in his prime. This part is stupid. You really don't understand boxing. You can't compare the Robinson of 1947 to the Floyd Mayweather of 2007, simply because Floyd Mayweather isn't 36; he's 30. You can't compare Mayweather to Tyson, because Mayweather's simply a better fighter.
fights are not won on heart,they are won on skill. there are countless guys in the gym who breathe boxing or jiu jitsu but just aren't very good and they get smashed on by guys who have no dedication and are just better...period.
Unreal, it's hard for me to believe so many on these boards think the hardest sport in the world requires little heart. :notallthere:
My quote: Your response: I don't understand boxing? Okay, I guess after following the sport for 35 years and being trained by a professional simply leaves my knowledge of the sport as "stupid". I don't come to boxing boards much for this very reason, a debate always leads to someone copping out by name calling and you really get nowhere. Personally I'm not really concerned with your credentials of the sport as your a poster here so I can only assume me and you have something in common, we both love boxing. Now, back to the post if possible, where exactly did I make a comarison of Robinson to Floyd? That was not my intention, my intention was only to say "Skill does not always win a boxing match". If it does, then I'd imagine you are 100% right in your picks and are a very rich man.
how come you arent a household name and zab judah is. Does Zab have more heart in the ring than you or the thousands of others who never make it big?...or is he just more skilled?
I'm not a professional fighter, I found getting punched in the face every day not to my liking besides that Zab is young enough to be my son. Now I have a few questions for you, please "no spin" Who has more skill, Zab or Baldomir? Who has more skill, Zab or Kostya? What happened to the UBER skilled Michael Grant? How about Dominick Guinn who was claimed to be one of the most promising skilled heavyweights in a long time? How did the two left footed Gene Fulmer become champion? Who has more talent, Ezzard Charles or Rocky Marciano? How did Joe Frazier beat Ali, was he more skilled than Ali? I'm not saying or have never said skill doesn't have it's place, it does but not so much as heart (determination, drive or whatever you wanna call it). Does Zab and Floyd have heart? Hell yeah they do, but as much as Ward or Gatti? Maybe, how can we know for sure. I say yes, they do especially Floyd, he's a workaholic, a perfectionist, that takes heart. I'm not just talking about getting punched in the face and keep coming forward, I'm talking "HEART".
TERRIBLE analogies. Floyd does not win fights on heart, he wins them on talent. Who had more heart Floyd or Chico, Floyd or Gatti. Now how aout Judah or Ward? Most top level guys have similar skill sets, fights aren't fucking determined by heart, they're determined by clashing styles. Tell me for one fuckig second Kelly Pavlik beat the hell out of Miranda because he had more heart. You can't, Miranda has "heart" from here to the moon, but he also has a poor defense and can't fight off the back foot. How did Marciano beat Charles?...with pressure and taking advantage of Charles' age and the rules of his time that allowed that first fight to continue. Michael Grant and Dominick Guinn seem to lack the motivation to be top tier guys, but so did Riddick Bowe when he got to the top. How come he was able to beat Holyfield in their third fight, did he have more "heart" than Holyfield? Stupidly, you are assuing boxing is about who wants it more, when the reality is at the top level everyone can fight and its almost always the case that styles make fights. These guys that come in face first and give and take punishment that u love so dearly, do so because if they tried to fight like the Ray Leonard's of the world they'd get annihilated in every fight. They use their strengths, and with that the styles produced usually determines who wins or loses. Heart may make a difference in some fights, but it wasn't heart that let Ray Leonard come back against Tommy Hearns, it was better conditioning, the skills to break him down, the technical ability to get in behind Tommy's jab and finish him off.
